Hi guys,

As a quadriplegic, touchscreen options do nothing for me, so which is the best operating system for hands-free use with DNS – Windows 7 or 8 – or will Windows 10 be best?

I have been blessed to be employed this semester as a teaching assistant in the same Masters program from which I graduated.

As such, I have the opportunity to acquire Windows 7 Ultimate or Windows 8 Pro through my university with a special deal they have with Microsoft.

I am wondering if I should take advantage of the opportunity to acquire a download or a DVD of either or both of those operating systems, or perhaps it is a moot point with Windows 10 coming out soon (I think).

I currently am using two different Windows 7 machines (one with DNS 13 Pro, and the other soon to be upgraded from 12 Pro to 13 Pro).

Thanks as always for your input.

-------------------------

Bill Miller :-)
C1-2 Quadriplegic with a 255 High Bowling Game
Co-founder of Manufacturing Genuine Thrills Inc.
Business website: http://www.ikanbowler.com
Personal website: http://www.lookmomnohands.net

Bill,

From a purely performance standpoint, Windows 8.1 wins hands-down. However, from a purely usability/hands-free standpoint Windows 8.1, quite frankly, sucks. In order to take advantage of Windows 8.1 you would have to re-add the classic start menu, which can be done as a freebie via ClassicShell or for $4.99 via Stardock's Start8, which I prefer simply because I don't like the extra enhanced features of ClassicShell. ClassicShell is like buying a computer with bloatware, IMOH, but there are those who really like it. I think that Start8 is better, but that's my personal opinion.

At this particular juncture Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit is still the preferred operating system as far as I'm concerned if you really need to be hands-free and can't take advantage of the Windows 8.1 touchscreen capabilities. In addition, upgrades to Windows 10, when it's released, will be free upgrades regardless of whether you're using Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Windows 10 will give you back much of the functionality of Windows 7 as far as the Start menu is concerned, but it will still be a little bit more difficult to get used to. I have the latest and greatest Windows 10 Technical Preview build #10074. However, I still prefer Stardock's, which is currently available and supports Windows 10, Start10. The long and the short of it is that Windows 10 will be significantly improved as far as the GUI over Windows 8.1, and it has many new features that are interesting, but will take some getting used to.

One of the usability sticky points Re: Windows 10 is getting used to the way you access some of the more common features found in Windows 7. While I think that users will like Windows 10 for greater hands-free functionality vs. Windows 8.1, all of us Dragon users are going to have to wait for Nuance because the newest, latest, and greatest Windows 10 browser (i.e., not IE 11 which you can use in Windows 10 and which I do use) is not Full Text Control (Select-and-Say) enabled.

Sorry for the diatribe on Windows 10, and but it just goes to my feeling that Windows 7 Ultimate is the operating system of choice that I would recommend in your case. Because Windows 10 is a free upgrade regardless of the current version of Windows that you're using, unless it's still Windows XP or Windows Vista God forbid, so why go with Windows 8.1.

Chuck

"Man is the animal that intends to shoot himself out into interplanetary space, after having given up on the problem of an efficient way to get himself five miles to work and back each day." - Bill Vaughn

-------------------------

VoiceComputer: the only global speech interface.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

Chuck Runquist
VoiceComputer technical support

Bill,

I agree with Chuck in principle.  I don't have Windows 8.  I do use ClassicShall because I like the added menu bar in Explorer.  I sort of liked Stardock's fences when it was free.

The only reason that I would look at Windows 8 on a new machine is that Windows 7 does not have a Windows native driver for USB 3.  This is not really a problem except some of the USB 3 toasters can be a bit dodgy when trying to operate them and access them outside of Windows – I use an eSata toaster for that very reason.  (Toaster = a hard drive docking bay that allows you to swap different types of hard drives for making images and backing up connected by USB or eSata).

Why don't you find out what Lindsay uses because he is totally hands-free.

Cheers for now
Dan

 

-------------------------

The forum has me as a Top-Tier Member NO I am a laid-back layman

Bill, I completely concur with Chuck. I use Windows 8.1 on many machines with DNS when I'm away from my office but that usage is a combination of DNS and the touchscreen features.

In my offices I use Windows 7 and those are the machines where I have taken the time to create the commands necessary to be able to use specialty applications that are not Dragon friendly out-of-the-box so that I can work primarily hands-free.

It is very likely that the school has unique scheduling, grading, administrative etc. programs that are going to be difficult to use hands-free. If you are able to see those in advance of your start date you will be able to figure out what your approach will need to be to use them hands-free. That is, will you create a series of custom commands for each or use something like the SmartNAV head mouse or combination thereof.

 

Phil Schaadt

Dan,

You are correct in that Windows 7 doesn't provide Microsoft USB 3.0 drivers. However, if you have a MOBO that has USB 3.0 ports, all of these motherboard manufacturers supply USB 3.0 drivers, generally by Intel. I have no problems with any of my Windows 7 systems using USB 3.0 devices on any of these Asus motherboards. So, the argument that Windows 7 doesn't supply native Microsoft USB 3.0 drivers is kind of a non sequitur. I get full USB 3.0 support for all of my 3.0 flash drives (i.e., Automatically supported on insertion in any of my Windows 7 systems USB 3.0 ports). In addition, with two Asus Sabertooth motherboards having 4 USB 3.0 ports as well as several USB 2.0 ports, Asus also supports USB 3.0 BIOS upgrades on USB 3.0 flash drives.

I have never found any conflicts or problems on any of my Windows 7 systems using USB 3.0 supported USB ports. On one system I even have my SpeechMatic USB MultiAdapter and USB TravelMike running perfectly fine with absolutely no problems connected to any of my USB 3.0 ports.

Chuck

"What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you." - Anthony de Mello

-------------------------

VoiceComputer: the only global speech interface.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

Chuck Runquist
VoiceComputer technical support

Chuck,

Yes thanks for the information – I don't have any problem with USB 3 while Windows itself is running.  I did have a problem with the USB 3 toaster and the Acronis boot disk.  It may be that the USB 3 toaster that I brought was a very early one and of course my system is better than 4 years old now.

I run a powered USB 3 hub with no hassles at all.  Having been once bitten when trying to restore my system using Acronis & my USB 3 toaster I have reverted to an eSata toaster.  I did source toaster from the net with eSata, USB 2 & USB 3 connections but by the time I got it shipped from the USA I couldn't really justify the cost and unfortunately I can't find a supplier for it in Australia.

I don't really use touch at all and I don't even have a smart phone.  I'm biding my time and waiting for the finger waving brigade to pass into extinction :-).

I always appreciate your comments because your understanding of hardware and software far exceeds my own somewhat limited approach.  My garage is littered with old grey boxes and discarded hardware and software.  In my case the old is cast off at the arrival of the new and I am astounded at the array of equipment that some members of the forum utilise and have access to.

I suppose I'm somewhat envious because I am a bit of a head when it comes to kit.  I always want what I haven't actually got as it were.  Now that I'm retired I definitely have to watch my pennies :-).

My system is getting a bit old and I awoke this morning to a system that would not boot.  I went back in time to an hour before I shut it down but to no avail.  I then went back in time to 9 hours before it shut it down, held my breath figuratively speaking, and hoped for the best.  I'm glad to say that whatever was the hassle was rectified and am now back on track :-).  It's all a bit frustrating because I no longer have the agility to strip my machine down pullout boards and components and test it like I used to be able to do.

Cheers for now
Dan

 

-------------------------

The forum has me as a Top-Tier Member NO I am a laid-back layman

Thank you for the information guys, I appreciate it.

For an operating system, should I pay extra to get it on DVD versus a download? I am thinking I will.

Sorry for the delay in replying, apparently I forgot to subscribe to the thread (and I was busy finishing up the semester).

-------------------------

Bill Miller :-)
C1-2 Quadriplegic with a 255 High Bowling Game
Co-founder of Manufacturing Genuine Thrills Inc.
Business website: http://www.ikanbowler.com
Personal website: http://www.lookmomnohands.net

Bill,


I'm old school and I like the software on a disk :-).  Especially the operating system in case I have to restore the system drive.  It is possible to have the software on a USB stick and a lot of high-end gaming machines don't even bother with DVD drives anymore but an external DVD drive is not expensive.  I still like having the operating system on a disk.


Cheers for now
Dan

-------------------------

The forum has me as a Top-Tier Member NO I am a laid-back layman

Thanks Dan. That confirms my thoughts on the DVD.

-------------------------

Bill Miller :-)
C1-2 Quadriplegic with a 255 High Bowling Game
Co-founder of Manufacturing Genuine Thrills Inc.
Business website: http://www.ikanbowler.com
Personal website: http://www.lookmomnohands.net

Bill et al.,

If you have the proper software to burn your own DVDs, you can use the download option and then create your own DVDs. I do this with all software that's downloadable, including Dragon, which is a little bit more complicated.

I simply don't like waiting for any software company that offers their software in a downloadable version to deliver their DVDs, and so far I haven't had to in the last several years.

Chuck

"Man is the animal that intends to shoot himself out into interplanetary space, after having given up on the problem of an efficient way to get himself five miles to work and back each day." - Bill Vaughn

-------------------------

VoiceComputer: the only global speech interface.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

Chuck Runquist
VoiceComputer technical support

Hi Bill,
Just spent some time reading you blogs on your website. I just want to say what an inspiring person you are.
Keep up the good work!
From New Zealand
Rag

-------------------------

Ren Scott

 

 

 

Thank you Chuck. I have a DVD burner, but not entirely sure I would be confident putting a downloaded operating system on DVD, unless it is straightforward.

Thank you Rag, I appreciate the kind words.

-------------------------

Bill Miller :-)
C1-2 Quadriplegic with a 255 High Bowling Game
Co-founder of Manufacturing Genuine Thrills Inc.
Business website: http://www.ikanbowler.com
Personal website: http://www.lookmomnohands.net

Bill,

Having downloaded applications and created my own DVD's for years, Iam very confident in doing this. However, doing so is not without its caveats depending upon the Burn software that you're using. I have used Roxio Creator (Corel) for the last 10 to 15 years, so I am more than comfortable doing this. It takes some practice until you get the hang of it, but it is fairly straightforward for most applications. DNS is a little bit more complicated because of the fact that they use a self extracting zip file which unzips to a temporary folder and then runs the setup.exe. However, you can redirect the extraction of files to your own folder on your hard drive and then cancel the install. After that, you simply burn a copy of the install files that have been extracted to that location.

Regardless, if you're uncomfortable doing this, then getting the DVD from the manufacturer is probably the most time-consuming while being the simplest approach.

One of the things that everyone has to keep in mind is that DVD drives (i.e., external) will probably be around for a while, but they are eventually going to go the way of floppy disks, which, in the end, leaves you with flash drives (USB thumb drives). Disk duplication (DVDs etc.) is an expensive process and adds to the cost of your software. Most software development companies are moving in the direction away from this and at some point you're only going to be able to get downloads.

Chuck

When the handwriting is on the wall, be sure you read it. - Unknown



-------------------------

VoiceComputer: the only global speech interface.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

Chuck Runquist
VoiceComputer technical support

Thanks Chuck.

As always, you provide good info, and for being as technologically knowledgeable as you are, you explain things well for those of us who are not on your level of proficiency.

Just my way of saying thanks.

On a side note, you and others do a terrific job of helping folks on these boards, and sometimes I wonder if you guys ever get tired of answering questions. I would say that we are fortunate you are using voice software so that it is relatively easy to respond.

-------------------------

Bill Miller :-)
C1-2 Quadriplegic with a 255 High Bowling Game
Co-founder of Manufacturing Genuine Thrills Inc.
Business website: http://www.ikanbowler.com
Personal website: http://www.lookmomnohands.net

What do you mean? We do this for health reasons. The more time we spend here, the less time we need to deal with stressful situations like family reunions, going to work, talking to our spouse, family outings and similarly nerve-racking events

-------------------------

Change "No" to "Know" w/KnowBrainer 2020
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ex 1

I'm with you Lunis, sitting here pontificating and rambling using spoken voice is far easier and less stressful than interacting with inter-family situations and having to make my suggestions, comments & instructions intelligible to grandchildren, hangers on and the rest of the menagerie :-).  It's a wonderful way to spend a Saturday afternoon!

Cheers
Dan

-------------------------

The forum has me as a Top-Tier Member NO I am a laid-back layman

Ha, Lunis, you guys really need to install "like buttons" on these forums. :-)

-------------------------

Bill Miller :-)
C1-2 Quadriplegic with a 255 High Bowling Game
Co-founder of Manufacturing Genuine Thrills Inc.
Business website: http://www.ikanbowler.com
Personal website: http://www.lookmomnohands.net

I appreciate everyone's responses to this thread. My Dell XPS 15 laptop (i7, 8GB RAM, not a touch screen) wants me to upgrade for free to Windows 10. Microsoft claims it was designed to work with all the same hardware/software I currently use. How true is this with respect to DNS 13? Supposing I only use DNS in Dictation Mode, never in Normal Mode and don't have a need for Full Text Control in the browser. Am I going to run into dictation issues if I upgrade? Or might I see an improvement in DNS 13 performance?

-------------------------

Mathew Call
Director of CART & Captioning
mathewcall@oneinterpreting.com
1-877-4MY-TERP (1-877-469-8377) ext. 103
www.oneinterpreting.com

Matthew,

DNS 13 works fine under Windows 10. Of course, I'm using the Technical Preview, but so far everything works. The only thing that I can be certain of is that if it works under Windows 8.1, then it will work under Windows 10.

You won't see any improvement in the performance in DNS 13 except relative to the performance issues related to previous versions. However, this is not a Windows 10 issue and the performance improvement is not related to Windows 10. It's related to DNS 13 in and of itself.

The only issue that you're going to run into in DNS 13 is in terms of non-Full Text Control (Select-and-Say) enabled applications and/or windows/browsers. You need Full Text Control (Select-and-Say) for supported applications whether you're running in normal mode or dictation mode. If you disable Full Text Control (Select-and-Say) where it is supported, you'll be shooting yourself in the foot.

Chuck

"What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you." - Anthony de Mello

-------------------------

VoiceComputer: the only global speech interface.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

Chuck Runquist
VoiceComputer technical support

Thank you Chuck! I see you answered a similar question in a new post as well -- much appreciated. I read up a little bit on Full Text control (Select-and-Say). Nuance says "The inconsistency with Natural text behavior was introduced with Windows-8 modern apps." (pulled from http://nuance.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16513/~/natural-text-function-limitations-in-dragon-naturallyspeaking-13 ) So let me boil my question down to this: if I'm using DNS mostly with Google Docs on Chrome and Chromium browsers now on Windows 7, will I notice any shortcomings using DNS with Google Docs on Chrome and Chromium browsers in Windows 10?

-------------------------

Mathew Call
Director of CART & Captioning
mathewcall@oneinterpreting.com
1-877-4MY-TERP (1-877-469-8377) ext. 103
www.oneinterpreting.com

Unique to Dragon 13, is the inability to dictate into many applications that you could dictate into in the past. To further rub salt into the wound, you cannot utilize Select-&-Say correction on your last dictated phrase. Our understanding is that, as you pointed out, the problem is caused by an inconsistency with Windows 8. Having said that, Nuance removed this feature in Dragon 13 so working in Windows 7 won't change anything. This is why Nuance created the auto opening Dictation Box (pops up whenever you attempt to dictate into a non-full text control application). Dragon 13 has a lot of impressive new features like open-ended command technology and fixing BestMatch V but it still has these 2 drawbacks.

The next release of KnowBrainer 2015 REV B will include a partial fix for the problem. REV B will include the ability to force dictation into any Window, field or application, that you can type into but we cannot fix the loss of Select-&-Say.

-------------------------

Change "No" to "Know" w/KnowBrainer 2020
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ex 1

Mathew,

Windows 10 has some under the hood improvements, as well as some distinct changes in the way features are displayed and accessed. Otherwise, anything that works under Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 in Google Chrome, will work exactly the same in Windows 10. In other words, the Dragon Web Extension is unaffected by upgrading to Windows 10. If the supported extension is installed and enabled and all the supported browsers in your current version of Windows, you will not notice any difference in Windows 10 in terms of performance or support [i.e., Full Text Control (Select-and-Say)].

As I've already said, any depends upon how Nuance is going to handle it, the only issue that arises in Windows 10 is relative to the new Edge browser, which is not currently supported in DNS 13. That may, however, change. We're about due for a DNS 13 update patch. I suspect that Nuance is waiting for the RC candidate for Windows 10, as well as possibly attempting to ensure compatibility with the upcoming Microsoft Office 2016. Nonetheless, since Windows 10 is due to be released on July 29, 2015, I would suspect that that would be Nuance's primary concern.

For the first time, Microsoft has done a very good job on fully upgrading not only your current version of Windows, but ensuring that all your applications are retained and fully functional. In addition, if you don't like Windows 10, Microsoft has provided a method fully restoring your original version of Windows with all applications and data intact. Simply put, this time Microsoft has done it right.

The only caveat is that you should use the Windows update compatibility checker in order to ensure that all your applications and hardware are fully compatible with Windows 10.

Inevitably, as with all new versions of Windows, some users are going to run into problems. However, if such occurs, users should be able to fully restore their previous version of Windows without a hitch. Users who run into problems will most likely be a result of pre-existing Windows problems and issues. My experiences been that it was very smooth in terms of upgrading my previous version of Windows 7 to Windows 10 on the system that I'm using for testing and I have not had any problems with it to date.

The only other caveat is that if you are going to install Windows 10 clean on a system that does not have any version of Windows installed or a version of Windows that is not upgradable via the free upgrade, it won't be free. That is, if a user has, for example, Windows XP, they won't be entitled to the free upgrade. Also, if you buy a new computer that has no version of Windows installed and you want to install Windows 10, then that won't be free either. Regardless, that should affect very few users. Windows 10 won't be free to corporate Windows users, though most of those folks will not be upgrading to Windows 10 until far into the future.

Chuck

Be careful what you wish for. You may find that what you get is not what you expect, or what you want. - Aesop (620 BC - 700 BC modern interpretation)

-------------------------

VoiceComputer: the only global speech interface.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

Chuck Runquist
VoiceComputer technical support

What a blessing to have access to two of the greatest gurus in the industry. Thank you very much Lunis and Chuck.

-------------------------

Mathew Call
Director of CART & Captioning
mathewcall@oneinterpreting.com
1-877-4MY-TERP (1-877-469-8377) ext. 103
www.oneinterpreting.com

So I tried out Windows 10 for a few days. Felt much like Windows 7 for which I was pleased. Didn't have any issues with DNS 13 or any other software. I did notice several sets of special characters were not being recognized; I'm sure that support will come with time. However, I had a myriad of issues specific to my Dell XPS L502X laptop. It was working much harder and heating up more, couldn't wake up from sleep mode, Bluetooth couldn't connect right, etc. These issues were enough to convince me to revert back to Windows 7 on this particular machine. It's obvious Dell built it to work with Windows 7. Dell is frank on their website stating they have not tested this particular model with Windows 10. Why would they if it's several years old and they have hundreds of newer models. If I were to build my own machine or purchase a new one, I'm sure Windows 10 would work much better.

-------------------------

Mathew Call
Director of CART & Captioning
mathewcall@oneinterpreting.com
1-877-4MY-TERP (1-877-469-8377) ext. 103
www.oneinterpreting.com