KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Straight Up, Which is the most accurate
Topic Summary:
Created On: 01/02/2021 11:54 AM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - igiddings - 01/02/2021 11:54 AM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - ax - 01/02/2021 12:29 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - R. Wilke - 01/02/2021 01:00 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - ax - 01/02/2021 03:02 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - R. Wilke - 01/02/2021 03:22 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - mwarddoc - 01/06/2021 04:38 AM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - Lunis Orcutt - 01/06/2021 11:03 AM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - AzraeltheCat - 01/08/2021 08:57 AM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - Lunis Orcutt - 01/08/2021 12:08 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - ax - 01/08/2021 08:59 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - ax - 01/08/2021 09:11 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - igiddings - 01/12/2021 03:04 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - Lunis Orcutt - 01/12/2021 07:11 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - ax - 01/18/2021 02:27 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - holycowdidyouseethat - 01/19/2021 05:40 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - Msradell - 01/20/2021 12:15 PM  
 Straight Up, Which is the most accurate   - mwarddoc - 01/25/2021 02:26 AM  
Keyword
 01/02/2021 11:54 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
igiddings
Junior Member

Posts: 22
Joined: 08/31/2012

I work as a lawyer from my attic, my only sound distraction is my 4 year old barging in and my radio in the background.

I currently use a VXI X100 which is pretty good but I have the cash to splash on a new mic.  What should I be looking to buy if I wanted the most accurate mic available and would I need a separate external sound card to go with it.

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated.



-------------------------

Intel Core i7-2600
16GB memory
Andrea NC181-VM mike 

 01/02/2021 12:29 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
ax
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 218
Joined: 03/22/2012

Will need to expand on the following:

1. Your budget.

2. Your preferred wearing style

3. Portability important?

4. Do you already have a decent external sound pod or "mixer"?  If not there are indeed very good USB mics out there already, in every style.   In this day and age, I wouldn't tinker with anything not already built-in USB-interfaced, unless you intend the mic to cameo some vocal duty or what not.

 

5. Multi-role for phones calls, etc?

 



 01/02/2021 01:00 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7437
Joined: 03/04/2007

While ax was quick in requesting a few more technical details, he missed the crucial question altogether: Which is the most accurate? Microphone, for that matter.

The simple answer to this: There is no such thing as "the most accurate microphone". Accuracy is not a thing you can buy.

-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage

 01/02/2021 03:02 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
ax
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 218
Joined: 03/22/2012

Indeed "the most accurate 'straight up'" was the question.  I think what Herr Wilke is saying is that recognition accuracy is not "a thing you can buy", at least not out-of-the-box, as speaker factor matters a great deal.  But clearly we are all aware of that.

The variables affecting recognition accuracy are: speaker (person), microphone, environment (noise), and speech recognition software.  The last is more or less a constant, assuming Dragon 15.x engine or its cloud equivalent.  Computer hardware, so long as meeting minimal requirement, is hardly a factor anymore.

Furthermore, the first three elements are not mutually independent.  Enunciation habits aside, if a person's primary workstation is a laptop, then wireless mic would make more sense.

In terms of ambient noise, intuitively and based on experience, radio matters little unless you are blaring it.  But the 4-year-old hollering "daddy/mommy" will "destroy" workflow.  The day may be here when software/hardware processing (see the thread on Nvidia video-card-based noise filtering) can even mitigate such show-stopper interruptions as well - at least for the receiving software.

However, my sub-evolved cochlear-to-auditory-cortex pathway doesn't have noise-cancellation.  Nvidia might be able to cancel the noise of that cyclone.  My brain can't!

Perhaps the day is also near when I could wear a cochlear "noise-cancelling" implant (actually I am 100% sure it's already here, Lunis could be already looking into that :-)), so both the computer and myself can blot out little ones shrieking ... anything to make that lockdown a little less excruciating!

Digressed, sorry.

Based on the fact that you already wear wired headsets and I presume that's the style you'd prefer - then if budget is no obstacle, I'd recommend taking a close look at the Philips SpeechOne.  I didn't get to personally test it out just because of logistics.

But here are my deductions:

1. In Philips' caliber and with the "stake" and reputation they have, it is extremely unlikely that they would be touting it to the nines if it doesn't beat 99+% of all wired and wireless headsets out there.  I just reckon it to be a little big for walking around patients with.

2. It surely can handle VOIP calls with aplomb.

3. Testing their SMP4000 convinced me that Philips' "lossless wireless transmission" is as good as USB.  Better than bluetooth as used in my MB Pro2.

4. Wireless charging.

5. Likely (speculative) has fairly superb noise-cancellation as I believe (without proof) that robust noise-cancellation is "easier" to implement for headset microphones than for other styles.

Downsides are: size of earpiece (subjective).  Weight not so bad holding it in my hand.  SAR is necessarily higher than bluetooth.  Microphone element smaller than desktop/handhelds (but contructed with some tricks).



 01/02/2021 03:22 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7437
Joined: 03/04/2007

ax, you might as well save yourself the trouble going into that amount of technical details, unless you you got some time to kill. Bottom line: the microphone, as long as it is working, won't matter.


-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage

 01/06/2021 04:38 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
mwarddoc
Senior Member

Posts: 151
Joined: 10/06/2017

I think I have the answer, I'm a physician, and I'm paid purely on productivity, I have to constantly search for the holy grail of speed of documentation (meaning speed and accuracy combined). I work where there is always background noise, people interrupting me, etc, etc. I have fought this problem nonstop for years. It is a huge problem in my field and location of work.

Besides a raft of other cheaper headsets over the last 20 years....

I have a 15 year old Sennheiser and separate sound card that plugs into a laptop and still works. Very, very good. Tied to the laptop by the darn cord though.
I have three Sennheiser MB Pro1's, great as well, and better somewhat than the 15 year old device, and wireless headsets.
I have a Sennheiser Presence, also good, but not as great as the two above, but I used it tonight in a noisy facility because of it's noise canceling ability, which is great, and that is why I still carry it, as backup, and if someone walks off with it I won't tear up because of financial loss.
I also purchased a Phillips Speechmike Air 4000...it is better than any of the above, and worth every penny. I've not tried the headset, but next time I get a bonus I just might get one of those and take all the above and put them in my backpack as backup mikes.
I've also used a corded Nuance Power Mike III, which our company purchased for us after realizing that the cheap mikes they provided us with were costing them money. It is very good. Recognition as good as any of the above, but corded, and the cordless just beats everything else.

If you can afford it, get the Phillips. I've never used anything that is that good, and while there is a learning curve, it simply works, and noise canceling is unbeatable. But, it never leaves my office, it never goes to any facility with me, while I would purchase another immediately if it were stolen, it would hurt, a lot, if it and my laptop walked off together to start new lives without me. I'd rather the laptop walk than the microphone. Plus, I have a dog that would think it is a chew toy, and I'd hate to see that sight...


-------------------------
mwarddoc
 01/06/2021 11:03 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Lunis Orcutt
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 38491
Joined: 10/01/2006

Don't forget that you have one more Philips SpeechMike Premium Air SMP4000 microphone advantage. Instead of purchasing another unit, you can purchase extra Philips ACC4000 Docking Stations for your other addresses



-------------------------

Forum Mission Statement
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ext 1

 01/08/2021 08:57 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
AzraeltheCat
New Member

Posts: 19
Joined: 01/25/2018

Quick query while waiting for the Dragon 15.6 patch to download (both because it's proceeding at the usual snail's pace unique to Nuance servers - at least the sheer inefficiency provides trust that I haven't been redirected to some Russian malware site instead of Nuance), and because Phillips seems quite deliberately vague about when they update their microphone elements:


.... Do any of the more technical/audio minded individuals here know whether the Speech One uses the same microphone element as the handheld speech might pro series (late models i.e. 3710, but before they went cordless with 4000)?

Its relevance to the topic, because unless physicians have some special need for a headset mechanism, the extra money Speech One would be difficult to justify if - as I suspect - it is the same microphone element (and same ancillary technology) just shifted from handheld to headset. The corded handhelds are extremely cheap on eBay, and even the cordless 4000 isn't far behind (though I would just go with the corded version, 3710, as if it is the same microphone element then you're getting everything that's in the speech one, but sidestepping apparently amazing cordless technology by simply plugging in a cord.

Most physicians I've met either take their notes seated at a computer (and if you were doing hospital grounds, that surely a digital recorder is going to be the better option anyway). I know the question was "what is the best and most accurate.", But when you're talking a difference of a few thousand dollars for something which potentially may be the exact same product, it's worth at least checking.

If I'm wrong, and Phillips did include an upgraded microphone element with their Speech One, then I'd certainly be interested to have that clarified.
 01/08/2021 12:08 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Lunis Orcutt
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 38491
Joined: 10/01/2006

The Nuance broadband backbone is 1 GHz which is very fast. Our server, which receives much less traffic, is 5 GHz but unless you have a fast connection, you may not notice the difference. If your download is too slow, it will probably fail. If you require a different download site we offer a DPI 15.61 download and optional flash drive.

Your slightest download is caused by either a slow Internet connection or a bottleneck between you and the Nuance server. You are not downloading a patch. You are downloading the full Monty which takes 7 minutes on our system

If you go to the Sennheiser website you can find the specs along with a pictorial of the individual pieces of their handheld microphones. They don't take the SpeechOne apart but from what we can see, it uses a different cardioid condenser microphone element. All SpeechMike (black) Premium microphones are identical. The Philips SpeechOne is the most accurate and comfortable microphone we have ever tested but in our opinion, the accuracy simply doesn't justify the price. Also note that that SpeechMike Premium line includes auto-gain. The SpeechOne does not; most likely because it is unnecessary.

You can also use your SpeechMike Premium LFH-3710 as a TableMike by dropping it into a coffee cup. Whitehouse note: please empty coffee cup first.

Closing: The Dragon Philips speech engine is so accurate that it is rather difficult to prove that one microphone is any more accurate than another. For this reason, we have removed our Microphone Comparison Guide. We now look for functionality, comfort and most importantly, noise filtering. The Philips speech engine seems to be more susceptible to noise than previous Dragon speech engines, even when you disable auto-gain.



-------------------------

Forum Mission Statement
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ext 1

 01/08/2021 08:59 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
ax
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 218
Joined: 03/22/2012

Interesting bits of info as always, Lunis.

 

Back to the specific question on hand.

 

"Straight up ..." for me this is the most accurate in a practical sense short of commissioning a vocal microphone (most of which can attach to the arm as well with a little improv).  This gives me the "third arm" I didn't know I had.

 

Make no mistake, this is a "close-talk" setup.  Really as good as (better than) any headset - while much easier on the auricular cartilage to boot.

 

Also better than holding in the hand (IMO), as it leads to better posture since you can sit up as high as you'd like.

 

As far as "far field" ... I'd love to be enlightened as to where/when that's useful.






 01/08/2021 09:11 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
ax
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 218
Joined: 03/22/2012

For our gracious host, however, I present the coffee-cup ... time is a little hard, so have to get by with a styrofoam for illustration ...

 

 



 01/12/2021 03:04 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
igiddings
Junior Member

Posts: 22
Joined: 08/31/2012

I've been thinking about how I use my mic and I'm very used to 'hybrid' use in that I will dictate a bit, type a bit and go back to dictating so to do both I need a headset mic. I've been looking at the Speechware flexymike DEC. What are peoples thoughts?

Is there any need to have the USB multiAdapter to go with it or can I just plug into my desktop?

-------------------------

Intel Core i7-2600
16GB memory
Andrea NC181-VM mike 

 01/12/2021 07:11 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Lunis Orcutt
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 38491
Joined: 10/01/2006

The SpeechWare FlexyMike DEC can use any USB Soundcard

As a reseller, you will have to take our thoughts with a grain of salt. We were involved in FlexyMike DEC developing and testing.

 

Our headset customers often complain about their ears sweating under speakers or around the back of their heads with "speakerless" headset microphones being too tight or too loose. The FlexyMike DEC hangs off from your ears but weighs very little. Accuracy is stellar and noise filtering is good but the main reason for developing the DEC is comfort.



-------------------------

Forum Mission Statement
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ext 1



 01/18/2021 02:27 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
ax
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 218
Joined: 03/22/2012

Mirror mirror on the wall:

Which is the most accurate of 'em all?

Shure 'dis ain't yo' MD431-II of yore ...

Really, does it matter anymore?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it doesn't break the bank: AT2005USB alone (without the swing arm sold in a "pack") + LS05 gooseneck at < US$100.

 

USB sound pod?  Not needed as it is built-in.  

 

Not as robust or versatile as either the PowerMic or SpeechMike (not to mention that OEM USB Type-A-to-mini-B cord ... definitely sullied Audio Technica's name).  But for fixed use at the desk with keyboard control ... I personally would like to know what else beats it - without costing the price of half a computer, if only for my own insatiable curiosity's sake.

 

 



 01/19/2021 05:40 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
holycowdidyouse..
Senior Member

Posts: 84
Joined: 02/06/2009

Sennheiser MB1 Pro works Awesome for PC then Phone with Teams and Dragon
 01/20/2021 12:15 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Msradell
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 274
Joined: 01/01/2013

Recently I've been using a Sennheiser PC7 USB headset with great results, it certainly is not a high-end microphone but seems to work very well. I'm not sure that buying an expensive microphone gives you one works any better than some of the cheaper ones.

I've found that accuracy has more to do with how you speak into the system than it does with equipment you are using. I've used everything from a $300 microphone to the $40 Sennheiser I'm using now and have seen the same basic accuracy.

 

 

 



 01/25/2021 02:26 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
mwarddoc
Senior Member

Posts: 151
Joined: 10/06/2017

"accuracy has more to do with how you speak into the system than it does with equipment you are using"

Although this is correct to a degree, it is not correct if you work in a "sound unstable environment" like I do. There is a distinct difference in the ability of the microphones that I've accumulated to deal with the background noise, which rises and falls constantly and erratically. There is another poster on here who mentioned the Phillips Speechmike Air 4000 and how well it dealt with the noise in their busy ER, and I found the same benefits (I do not work in an ER but in four very different environments all with their own very different noise challenges).

I suspect that the original poster is likely to find that the MB Pro 1 or 2 will work just as well as the Phillips Speechmike Air 4000, particularly with their described environment. They might be able to get the same performance out of a number of microphones, depending upon their verbal characteristics, this is particularly true with the newest versions of Dragon.



-------------------------
mwarddoc
Statistics
31935 users are registered to the KnowBrainer Speech Recognition forum.
There are currently 0 users logged in.
The most users ever online was 12124 on 09/09/2020 at 04:59 AM.
There are currently 454 guests browsing this forum, which makes a total of 454 users using this forum.

FuseTalk Standard Edition v4.0 - © 1999-2021 FuseTalk™ Inc. All rights reserved.