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Topic Title: Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection
Topic Summary: I am desparate to find a way to get DNS to work "remotely" through RDP to my VM
Created On: 08/10/2022 12:23 PM
Status: Post and Reply
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 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/10/2022 12:23 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/10/2022 01:24 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/11/2022 10:19 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/12/2022 10:19 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/10/2022 06:22 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/10/2022 06:54 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - PG LTU - 08/11/2022 12:28 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Stephan Kuepper - 08/11/2022 10:49 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - PG LTU - 08/11/2022 11:52 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/11/2022 12:56 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Allan H. - 08/14/2022 10:45 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 09/30/2022 03:01 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/12/2022 12:17 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/15/2022 12:16 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Allan H. - 08/15/2022 08:51 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/16/2022 01:21 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Stephan Kuepper - 08/17/2022 03:07 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Allan H. - 08/16/2022 08:27 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Lunis Orcutt - 08/17/2022 12:18 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/26/2022 02:19 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 08/26/2022 03:46 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - PG LTU - 08/26/2022 06:16 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 10/01/2022 03:38 PM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - Stephan Kuepper - 10/04/2022 04:50 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 10/04/2022 08:46 AM  
 Is there any way to get DNS (v. 15.30) to work acceptably through an RDP connection   - jpaquette - 10/05/2022 10:58 AM  
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 08/10/2022 01:24 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Can you tell us why you need to use Windows 10 as a VM?

 

We are not certain but this feature may be available in the DPG 15.6 Upgrade. If you like, we can send you a trial



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 08/11/2022 10:19 AM
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jpaquette
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Just did a little bit of reading on DPI, are you thinking of working through Dragon Anywhere which is limited to Android or iOS devices or is there another reason you think it could now do what I need?  I have DPI 15.30 and I haven't so far found any way to get it to recognize remote audio coming through RDP.

 

Just saw the other responses--very interesting!

 

I believe I had everything set up properly for audio redirection on both client (Hyper-v server) and RDP server (Win10 VM).  I'm going back to scratch from my bootable vhdx Win 10 copy (yes, I bought a new license for it from MS) file from my old machine--I made the mistake yesterday of trying to add my local Administrator account to Application Packages after I had done so to Com an DCom in Component services.  The Com and Dcom change got rid of a flood of errors in Event Viewer but the change to Application Packages was not helpful, so reset.

 

So I will have another go at making sure my redirection configuration is correct.  If that still doesn't work, I'd be greatful if PG LTU would have a look at a summary of my redirection changes and see if he thinks I'm missing something.

 



 08/12/2022 10:19 AM
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jpaquette
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Hello Lunis,

I now have my VM working very stably and remote audio working well, in fact I believe optimized.

In light of PG's success with DPG in what sounds like a similar but not identical environment I would like to take you up on your offer of a trial version of an upgrade version of DPG 15.6 so I can test it on my system.

Thank you and hope to hear from you soon on this.



 08/10/2022 06:22 PM
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jpaquette
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Thank you Lunis.

 

Because most of my professional life I have suffered with old, slow, machines not up to doing my research, teaching, and personal computing at reasonable speeds much less doing double duty as workstation and (mainly Acronis) fileserver to help avoid reconfiguring my operating systems from scratch in case of storage failure, serious corruption, malware that got through, etc..   So a muscular server seemed the right move--provided I could hive off some of its resources to do my desktop work--at last, freedom from spending way too much of my dwindling lifespace “waiting for my computer(s).”  But Dragon is my writing lifeline—and has been ever since I had a serious ulnar-nerve episode a couple of decades ago from keyboarding.

 

DPG looks like a really interesting product—in a way serious overkill for my current needs but sounds as if it would have been just right before I “retired.”  Without reading any details, I’m guessing it works on a cloud-based connection.  Is that correct?  But at the moment anything that would allow me to use Dragon in my new server-based VM world the way I am accustomed to using it would be welcome.

 

How about I take the rest of this week to see if I can find any work-around that work although at this stage I'm not too optimistic.  If not, I may take you up on a trial copy of DPG to see if it works in this environment.

 



 08/10/2022 06:54 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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DPG can work as well on a remote computer as a host computer. This is the primary reason for the high price.

Our recommendation would be to use DPI in a traditional fashion on your local computer, which probably has plenty of juice. If you have trouble dictating from your current computer to another computer, you might consider the $35 DragonCapture utility but cross that bridge if & when you get to it. You'll find a 30 day trial of DragonCapture in our signature tag



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 08/11/2022 12:28 AM
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PG LTU
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I use Dragon Group edition over RDP without any issue. It is the feature I need most and it works great. As long as your RDP client supports redirecting audio (which Windows on a PC and iOS on an iPhone does, but Android OS on mobile device did not last I checked), you can use your Dragon on the server like you were sitting in front of it. It is not cloud based, btw, it is installed on the server PC itself (Lunis mentioned that you can use it locally too, he meant on the server PC itself, if it was a physical machine). You won't need the Nuance Management center, but you will get the Data Distribution Tool which lets you create new or replacement profiles with all the custom words and commands added automatically. Dragon Individual never worked over RDP, I don't think you will find any work around.



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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 08/11/2022 10:49 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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What PG said. The RDP support is one of the main advantages of DPG (Group) over DPI (Individual).

In Europe at least, there is a cloud-based Windows app called Dragon Professional Anywhere. (There is also a smartphone app by that name.) This app will also allow you to dictate in a remote desktop environment.

Whether it's available in the US I don't know. Lunis should, but he'll probably start a rant on why it's not worth it. If you rely on Dragon for Command and Control of your PC, he's even correct 8)

HTH, Stephan

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 08/11/2022 11:52 AM
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PG LTU
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The problem isn't redirecting the audio (ugh - all that trouble, it should be mostly handled when you set up the vm). The problem is DPI does _not_ work with "Remote Audio" as a mic source - no matter the rest of your Server does! DPG does, simple as that. Sounds like you already spent a lot more money than you needed to, probably (IMHO YMMV), so spend some of it on DPG why don't you? (I mean, I don't normally spend other people's money and I'm frugal as heck but I gotta have DPG and formally DNS Pro since I jumped up from 9 Individual to 11 Pro (or maybe it was 7 to 9? Out of cheapness I used to skip versions . . .) and it seems like you would too)

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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.

 08/11/2022 12:56 PM
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jpaquette
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Very interesting--food for thought over the next couple of days for sure.

 08/14/2022 10:45 PM
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Allan H.
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This is interesting. For years I've just put up with not having speech recognition available on a Remote Desktop connection. Now you're telling me it's possible?

It looks like I've also got some research to do.

(Incidentally Lunis, your links at the bottom of https://shop.knowbrainer.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=615 don't work)

thank you gentlemen

 

 



 09/30/2022 03:01 PM
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jpaquette
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After considerable experimentation with DPG and RDP Remote Audio and with FabulaTech's Sound for Remote Desktop I had only partial bits of success in the midst of overall failure.

 

Experimenting with trial versions of both DPG and Sound, DPG did initially recognize audio from Sound but my memory and virtual processor settings in Hyper-V were too skimpy to produce useful speech recognition.

 

To cut to the end of the story (to date) I wound up encouraged enough to risk purchasing both Sound and DPG.  Unfortunately, in the end, I'm back to the fatal "no sound" message from DPG every time I have tried to get the two to work together.  Interestingly, during the very first few try with the two purchased products, DPG did not complain about no audio but rather about needing me to load a profile--but I had okayed my working profile (which I kept from DPI) before that notice.

 

BTW, I went back to a checkpoint version of my Win10 Pro VM that was made just before I started working on this problem of using DPG with RDP.

 

As for being able to use DPI on the server directly, yes I could do that but I surely don't want to put all my working text software directly on the server.

 

I have thought a lot about seeing if an audio board would help and, in light of this disappointment, may try to do so.  A bit of dedicated audio memory might just help.  Compatibility is an issue with a server.  Also, I have only one PCIe slot left and the two USB adapter boards I've tried in that slot have kept the machine from booting.  Now, I have a very good machine warranty with excellent support so I'm not really afraid of trying an audio board or two in that slot but the galling thing is that the trial DPG did recognize my bad audio on the first few tries with the trial copy of Sound, then stopped.

 

I am hoping someone can see a way forward in this and has some suggestions.

Thank you!



 08/12/2022 12:17 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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jpaquette,

Check your email

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 08/15/2022 12:16 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Thank you for catching those dead PDF links. They are no longer needed so we just remove those links

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 08/15/2022 08:51 PM
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Allan H.
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Another question please gentlemen. Is there a detailed review or user guide available for DPG? I'm a little reluctant to start messing around with possible conflicts between DPI and DPG during a trial run. Or am I just being paranoid?
Allan H.
 08/16/2022 01:21 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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You might consider the Dragon Installation/Training Guide PDF



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 08/17/2022 03:07 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Originally posted by: Allan H. Another question please gentlemen. Is there a detailed review or user guide available for DPG? I'm a little reluctant to start messing around with possible conflicts between DPI and DPG during a trial run. Or am I just being paranoid? Allan H.

 

Try User Documentation | Nuance for detailled user guides. 

 

Be aware that you can't install DPI and DPG on the same machine. DPG is an upgrade from DPI. Should you decide against DPG, you need to completely remove it and then reinstall DPI, which might affect your number of available registrations. 

 

The user profile is compatible, meaning that you can use your existing profile both with DPG and DPI.

 

Hope that helps, Stephan



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 08/16/2022 08:27 PM
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Allan H.
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not until you update the online store illustration and/or the front cover. DNS version13 and KnowBrainer 2014. Really?
 08/17/2022 12:18 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Originally posted by: Allan H. not until you update the online store illustration and/or the front cover. DNS version13 and KnowBrainer 2014. Really?


You are looking at the cover of the last printed manual. We no longer print manuals and have no reason to update a picture which will not actually appear on the manual. The purchase is satisfaction guaranteed. The latest republished date is August 5, 2022 and viewable in the upper right corner of the 1st page. This manual is typically updated every few months. It is a Forever manual meaning that every time you click the link, it updates to the latest release.

The Nuance complementary Dragon Guides are highly detailed and strongly recommended. The Nuance Dragon guides focus on technical aspects while the KnowBrainer Dragon guide focuses on more personal use; such as how to eliminate those 30 sandtraps which the manufacturer isn't going to mention

PS: The DPI 15.61 and DPG 15.71 manual no longer includes the KnowBrainer Manual because it is free



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 08/26/2022 02:19 PM
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jpaquette
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So I finally got some time to try DPG. The results are rather mixed. The good news is that DPG recognized “Remote Audio” immediately. The less good news is that I have to articulate quite painfully precisely to get anything close to what I want.  I have tried numerous level settings for the microphones on the RDP client machine (the Windows server). 

That said, I’m guessing that my main problems are likely to be audio hardware and configuration and RDP transfer speed (some time ago, I gave highest priority to RDP packets in my router’s QOS settings).  My microphone is my old Plantronics C55 headset which has done very well by me for many years.  I also tried a VXI Talkpro Xpress headset microphone through a cheap Amazon USB mini-plug audio adapter. Its performance wasn’t any better. 

Relevant group policy settings for RDP host at Administrative templates>Windows Components>Remote Desktop Services>Remote Desktop Host are: 

1.      Device and Resource Redirection

a.       Allow audio and video playback redirection: enabled

b.      Allow audio recording redirection: enabled

                 c.       Limit audio playback quality: probably not relevant but disabled 

Relevant group policy settings for RDP host at Administrative templates>Windows Components>Remote Desktop Services>Remote Desktop Client are: 

1.      RemoteFX USB Device Redirection

                 a.       Allow RDP redirection of other supported RemoteFX USB devices 

I have one available 8-bit PCIe slot on my motherboard BUT it did not work with either of two USB boards I tried on it. All connecting network components are rated 1Gbit and audiocapturemode:i:2 is set in the RDP connection. 

In any case, I cannot work productively with Dragon at this (lack of) speed and (lack of) accuracy so I am hoping some of you have potentially useful specific advice—I really need to be able to use Dragon productively on my new machine!

 



 08/26/2022 03:46 PM
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jpaquette
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So I turned off all of the high band-wth RDP experience features--no change.  Then I reset sampling from 44000Hz to 16000Hz--no change.  It is as if the sound signal only gets through erratically. In particular, the first words of a speech set are always dropped--and any lowering of my voice means those words get lost.

Reminds me of the the early "voice-activated relay" VOX arrangments for automatically switching microphones on and off in the early days of AM ham radio.

Hmm!?



 08/26/2022 06:16 PM
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PG LTU
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I use to use that Plantronics C55 headset dependably with rdp and besides mic quality is less important these days anyway. They use to even provide (but I don't think they do anymore) an application for setting your remote mic level but with auto gain (even on remote audio) it is not needed, and even crappy mics may perform well - so long as they pick up and work quickly (so no bluetooth reconnect- or mic-on button lags - the kind of stuff it sounds like you're experiencing). Good clean connections between components is what is good. Try other mics, even onboard mics and mics in webcams aren't bad sometimes, or better yet try the WO Mic. Forget about setting anything fancy audio-wise up on the server, you want remote audio with no complications there and nothing else will matter.

For me, I have never seen any significant difference in latency, accuracy, responsiveness, how hard it is to dictate clearly, etc. between sitting in front of a machine (my Sager i7 Core Win 8.1 gamer rig with all kinds of extra copper shielding around the cooling system and a fast gpu which I don't even use but nothing so special like you got) and remoting in to it through an rdp connection over a dynamic dns internet address (I use the free "no-ip" service) even with bad signals (but that's when those experience settings matter, mostly I keep it at auto). In a remote desktop experience, a video may appear pretty choppy, but I've never seen any like choppyness in the Dragon's response. That includes using my mic in a virtual windows 11 preview box (not by rdp into it though, like you're trying, but by the native audio mux from the VNC or VirtualBox client).

But one thing I don't get: If you are running the RDP client on the Windows server then you already have a desktop operating system to run Dragon locally. I guess that is no problem with DP Individual. Now, your server also has a win os Hyper-V box going and you rdp in to it. So this virtual os needs the DPG on it and will ignore all local audio because it only has access to the remote audio redirect. In that case, you should focus on your local machine audio settings (make sure to uncheck the allow exclusive use and priority options) and make sure the Hyper-V box isn't using anything but the motherboard audio device (so no USB sound cards or other redirects into the server os) and doesn't interfere with capturing the remote audio.

Good luck,

 

EDITS: See Dragon Professional Group Client Installation Guide which is dated and probably of little help and I see you already heard about the "Dragon Client For Remote Desktop" which is the utility to set your mic levels, Ha Ha - I never used it when they offered it since I'll set my own levels thank you!  YMMV



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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 10/01/2022 03:38 PM
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jpaquette
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I just noticed that if I pass the mouse pointer over the greyed and xed out microphone icon on the Dragon bar I get the message: "Currently disabled--Open a user profile to enable."

 

So I tried to create a new profile but new profile cannot hear the FabulaTech Remote Audio connection either.



 10/04/2022 04:50 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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First of all, you have already received lots of good advice from PG. However I'd like to add some details:

 

  • Over an RDP connection, the ONLY avaliable audio source for Dragon is Windows Remote Audio. No other source will do.
  • Don't futz around with the RDP audio settings. Leave them at the default level. 
  • Forget about the Dragon Client for Remote Desktop, it is a waste of time.
  • Auto-gain is disabled in an RDP environment because of the issues that it caused. However that shouldn't matter much.

 

Having said that, possibly the issue lies not with the microphone but with audio transmission. Can you record a bit of audio both on the local client and on the server using the Windows audio recorder and check what it sounds like? Sometimes the audio input is good, but transmission wrecks it somehow. This simple test will help you find out.

 

HTH, Stephan



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 10/04/2022 08:46 AM
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jpaquette
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Thank you Stephan for this most welcome reply to my recent posts in this thread.

 10/05/2022 10:58 AM
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jpaquette
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I want to thank PK and Stephan for their excellent advice — and of course Lunis for taking care of the details of the purchase for me.

I am dictating this message with DPG directly into Firefox!

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