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Topic Title: Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help
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Created On: 04/27/2022 04:55 PM
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 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 04/27/2022 04:55 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/27/2022 06:00 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 04/28/2022 09:13 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/29/2022 01:51 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 04/29/2022 09:25 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 04/30/2022 04:20 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 04/30/2022 12:32 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 04/30/2022 12:50 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - R. Wilke - 04/27/2022 09:25 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 04/28/2022 09:25 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 04/30/2022 03:04 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Matt_Chambers - 04/30/2022 05:36 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - kkkwj - 04/30/2022 10:40 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/05/2022 11:40 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/01/2022 01:44 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/01/2022 02:09 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/05/2022 11:41 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/05/2022 03:53 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/05/2022 09:38 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Stephan Kuepper - 05/06/2022 03:44 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 05/06/2022 07:23 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/06/2022 12:46 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/06/2022 02:43 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/06/2022 03:57 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/06/2022 04:35 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 05/07/2022 04:45 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/08/2022 01:12 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Mav - 05/09/2022 03:07 AM  
 willWord Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/09/2022 12:49 PM  
 willWord Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Mav - 05/10/2022 03:54 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Stephan Kuepper - 05/09/2022 03:00 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 05/09/2022 06:38 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/09/2022 01:59 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/09/2022 02:23 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/09/2022 02:45 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - matthewls - 05/09/2022 03:34 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/09/2022 09:41 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 05/10/2022 08:46 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/10/2022 01:26 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 05/10/2022 02:07 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/10/2022 05:12 PM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Mav - 05/11/2022 02:06 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - monkey8 - 05/11/2022 03:42 AM  
 Word Crashes until close Dragon Pro 15.6.1 & rebooting doesn't help   - Suzanne Suzanne - 05/15/2022 05:47 PM  
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 04/27/2022 04:55 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I work in Microsoft Word extensively and often have several Word documents open. I have Microsoft office professional plus 2019. These word documents are typically in One drive but also resident on my physical HP computer. Everything will be fine working in word and then suddenly all the word documents will close. If I reopen any Word document after that, then all the other Word documents that had been open will open for second and then they will all close again. Even after rebooting several times, I will still have the same problem until I close Dragon--then I can work in word, but not with Dragon or all Word docs close. Dragon Repair and Office Repair didn't help matters. I am not sure, but I'm wondering if also accessing Word documents in dropbox (which is also resident on my computer) is causing a problem, perhaps because they use a different Microsoft account. I have contacted Microsoft and they don't have any great solutions. Any ideas?

 

Below is what I'm using: 

 

Memory

32 

 *

Microphone Brand and Model

Sennheiser Epos SC 630 with USB connection

 *

Operating System

Windows 10 pro

 *

Processor (CPU) Type & Speed

Intel i7-8565U QuadCore Processor (8th Gen.) @ 1.80 GHz

 *

Soundcard Brand and Model

Bang & Olufsen

 *

Speech Software (exact version and edition)

Dragon Pro 15.6.1

 *

Speech Software Version

speech start 6.7

 *

Using KnowBrainer?

Yes

 *



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ss

 04/27/2022 06:00 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Try temporarily leaving SpeechStart+ and KnowBrainer 2017 out of the equation. If the problem persists, we suspect that you are working with a bloated user profile. Try creating a new test user profile to see if it solves a problem. If it does, your current user profile can be saved with our 28 pictorial tweaks, which you will find in our KnowBrainer Dragon Installation/Training Guide. This manual is complementary to our Dragon customers.

 

Also note that KnowBrainer 2017 is nearly 6 years out of date and rather lethargic. We recommend upgrading to the KnowBrainer 2020 Uppgrade



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 04/28/2022 09:13 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really appreciate your quick response because I needed to get some work done. I would've replied sooner but I've been testing to make sure things are working okay and they are! Word is working fine with Dragon and Speech Start as long as KB is not on board. I bought KB in January 2021 but it shows KB 2017 4.52.000.



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ss

 04/29/2022 01:51 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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KnowBrainer 2017 is fairly bogged down now with a number of Windows 10 changes. It is now nearly 6 years out of date. We recommend the KnowBrainer 2020 Upgrade 

 

Our KnowBrainer Dragon Installation/Training Guide includes pictorial details on the sandtraps and a number of other perks



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 04/29/2022 09:25 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I spoke too soon. Now Word is crashing again. Oh well.



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ss

 04/30/2022 04:20 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Suzanne Suzanne I spoke too soon. Now Word is crashing again. Oh well.

 

 

Hi Suzanne,

 

It's Lindsay, you contacted me off forum about Speechstart+ right drag? Let's ascertain the facts by a process of elimination. Is it possible just to stop using KB altogether temporarily to see if the problem with word crashing goes away completely. For at least one week to be absolutely sure, however if word crashes before then let us know. Normally this issue is caused by a particular word document so keep your eyes open to see if this is a common factor in Word crashing.



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 04/30/2022 12:32 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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yes, thanks for your responses. 

This is a summary of my word crashing problem and further testing: On an older HP computer Windows 10, I have the same set up with Dragon Pro 15.6.1, speech start and KB, and I had the exact same problem with Word crashing. I disabled KB and speech start and still have the problem so it doesn't appear that they are contributors. Since Word works fine without Dragon I have to assume that this is a Dragon problem. Dragon dictation works ok in Notepad.

It doesn't matter what word document I open, I have tried about 12 different word documents – it can be any Word document. Word is immediately crashing when I open a word doc on my desktop, in dropbox or one drive – it doesn't matter where the word doc is. The only way I can work in any Word document is online, such as in one drive. 

any suggestions?



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 04/30/2022 12:50 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I tried a different Dragon profile that I created in 2019 and never used, but word still crashes. I disabled KB and speech start and still have the problem so it doesn't appear that they are contributors to the problem. You can see more of my tests further below.

I really need my Dragon to work, please help!



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 04/27/2022 09:25 PM
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R. Wilke
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Just adding to the sage advice of Lunis...

For the sake of "surgical precision", I would also leave the "28 sand traps" out of the equation for a while, except for one: disable saving the recorded dictation with document.

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 04/28/2022 09:25 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I appreciate your advice. Where do I find information about the sand traps? I did do the recommendations in the Dragon Manual by Knowbrainer 2021. 



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ss

 04/30/2022 03:04 PM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Suzanne Suzanne I tried a different Dragon profile that I created in 2019 and never used, but word still crashes. I disabled KB and speech start and still have the problem so it doesn't appear that they are contributors to the problem. You can see more of my tests further below.

 

I really need my Dragon to work, please help!

 

 

So now that we have established that the third party add-ons are not to blame and presuming you have no other third party add-ons personally I would try new user profile first, takes five minutes to set up, just to test you get the same crashing. If you have a different microphone you could use temporarily then try with that, I had an obscure problem once where a microphone was causing crashes albeit in a different manner.

 

Presuming the above doesn't help the next thing I would try is to completely uninstall office 2019 and reinstall presuming you have the activation code, sometimes a repair like you tried will not do the trick. This will also reinstall the Dragon addin into Microsoft Word. 

 

 

 



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 04/30/2022 05:36 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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This is a long shot, but perhaps find and rename the Word normal template. It's named normal.dotm. Maybe, with Word closed, rename it normal.dotm.old. Word should then recreate the normal.dotm the next time you open Word. Seems to solve a surprising number of Word problems.
 04/30/2022 10:40 PM
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kkkwj
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I'm kind of with Matt on this one. It sounds like the issue has something to do with your local installations of Word and/or Dragon. Since Word in the cloud works, it could be something with your local installation of word.

Matt is saying, "Try a new normal.dotm file just like Lindsay was saying "try a new Dragon profile." FWIW, I agree with both of them.

Here is where your Normal.dotm is located (Win10). C:\Users\YOURLOGINNAME\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Templates\Normal.dotm

Has your setup worked well for a long time before this problem surfaced? If so, what changed just before the problems surfaced? It almost sounds like Word has one or more old startup files or hidden macro files that it is loading and cannot save to disk or something on the local machine.

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Win10/11/x64, AMD Ryzen 7 3700X/3950X, 64/128GB RAM, Dragon 15.3, SP 7 Standard, SpeechStart, Office 365, KB 2017, Dragon Capture, Samson Meteor USB Desk Mic, Amazon YUWAKAYI headset, Klim and JUKSTG earbuds with microphones, 3 BenQ 2560x1440 monitors, Microsoft Sculpt Keyboard and fat mouse

 05/05/2022 11:40 AM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I did not have this word crashing problem with Dragon years ago. I don't know what triggered it and I am looking for a solution. I don't create macros myself. I don't know if one drive is somehow causing The problem. Word was working fine a few days ago and now I'm having the same problem again.

Does anyone else use Microsoft one drive with Dragon okay?



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 05/01/2022 01:44 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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thanks for all of your inputs. The odd thing is, in the past I've had the same problem on another HP as well that has all the same software. right now that older PC is working okay in word.

on my new HP PC:These things have not worked, combined with rebooting a lot: I created another new profile, used a different microphone, tried a mouse instead of tracking pad, plugged headset into a different port, renamed word normal template (by the way, when I tried to rename it normal.dotm.old as suggested, I got a pop up you can't change the extension so I simply renamed it normalold.dotm).

Microsoft's solution was: upgrading to Business Standard remains the strongest option to resolve the issue of Microsoft Word freezing and closing out on it's own.


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ss

 05/01/2022 02:09 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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Now it's working okay and I'm not entirely sure why. Here's what I did, even though I had rebooted after doing the previously mentioned changes: I rebooted again and then BEFORE opening Dragon, I opened word and as usual there's no problem when Dragon isn't running. Then I rebooted again and open Dragon and then open word and everything is working fine!
Any idea what this means regarding how to prevent this problem in the future other than doing what I just did?

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 05/05/2022 11:41 AM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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Now I'm having The word problem again. It was working fine until I opened a second word document, Then word closed immediately. both Documents were in One drive. I turn Dragon off, and then was able to open word documents. I turned Dragon on again and was able to use Dragon in the word documents. I did not reboot or do anything else.
A few minutes later both Word documents crashed and When I try to open any Word document, word opens all the previous Word documents and then immediately closes.


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 05/05/2022 03:53 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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It sounds like Dragon is the catalyst rather than the culprit. Our best guess is that you have a Microsoft Word problem that Dragon exacerbates; resulting in a crash. We don't believe you have a problem with OneDrive. You might try reinstalling Word or Office

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 05/05/2022 09:38 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I did Office 2019 repair and words still crashed. so I uninstalled office 2019 and reinstalled it. I rebooted. Words still crashes. Boo-hoo.

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 05/06/2022 03:44 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Let's face the facts. The Dragon Word add-in is seriously flawed and has been for the last five years. Once you get into this situation, there is no easy way out, and certainly all the  solutions that used to work with Dragon 13 are not going to work now. First and foremost, this has NOTHING to do with your Dragon user profile. 

 

IMHO The Dragon Word add-in conflicts with something else on your computer. This may be another Word add-in, or a Group Policy set by your administrator. 

 

Some easy fixes you may try first to get the add-in up and running again:

 

1. Close Dragon. Press Windows + R and enter the following: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Program\natspeak.exe" -fixguids 

This will re-register all Dragon add-ins. I doubt that it will work, but it's fast and therefore worth a try. You may need admin privileges to run this command.

 

**Everybody take note that this command may save you re-installing Dragon and MS Office. All this re-installing is basically just a long and complex way to re-register all add-ins. This command will do exactly the same, but in a few seconds.**

 

2. Locate C:\Program Files (x86)\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Program\natspeak.exe and start Dragon by double-clicking this file. For some reason, this solves a lot of issues with Dragon and MS Word. It that helps, create a shortcut to the file on your desktop, and run Dragon from here.

 

3. Navigate to %appdata%\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking on your computer, and rename the nsuser.ini to something like nsuser.bak. Dragon will create a new version of the file on startup. Sometimes that helps.

 

Now for some major surgery:

 

4. Create a new Windows profile and see whether the issue persists. 

 

5. Disable all MS Word add-ins except for the natspeak add-in, and re-enable them one at a time. This may tell you whether the Dragon add-in conflicts with another add-in on your computer.

 

Hope that helps, Stephan



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 05/06/2022 07:23 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Stephan Kuepper Let's face the facts. The Dragon Word add-in is seriously flawed and has been for the last five years. 

 

 

 

That's about it but if you want Nuance's take on it for the various issues including crashing then see the following, many already covered above in the various posts:

 

https://nuance.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/29762/kw/Microsoft%20Word%20crashing

 

Of course the disclaimer/statement made by Nuance that the problems are caused by the users environment and NOT Dragon can be taken with a pinch of salt especially as they are working on certain acknowledged bugs at the moment regarding some of the issues mentioned in the technical note(specifically jumping pages). However Suzanne in your case it could well be the environment and it will be interesting to see what happens with a different Windows user account.



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 05/06/2022 12:46 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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I appreciate you taking the time to try and help me. StephanOf Stephan's suggestions, here is a summary of what I did with the same numbers he used:
1.. With command to reregister all Dragon add-ins,
2. started Dragon from NatSpeak.exe,
3. Renamed nsuser.ini
with rebooting but word still crashing.

4. Q: Regarding creating a new Windows profile - I'm totally unfamiliar with that. What do you think of doing what is suggested here at this link? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-client/user-profiles-and-logon/create-new-user-profile
Note, I am a single user, I am not part of a business connected to a server.

5. I haven't been able to go into Word today at all, but when I was able to briefly get in yesterday and looked at the Word Add-ins. The Active Application add-ins listed were Date, Instant messaging Contacts, Measurement Converter, Telephone and The only COM add-ins listed were dropbox for office and NatSpeak word add-in. When I go to COM add-ins, only NatSpeak is checked & even though dropbox is not checked, I removed it.

Q: Dropbox wouldn't be the problem since it wasn't checked, right? So do you think I need to do anything further with the other add-ins?

Would appreciate further input.


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 05/06/2022 02:43 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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Word is also crashing on my old HP PC  which has Microsoft Desktop Office 2016. Otherwise, both my PCs have Windows 10, Dragon Pro 15.6.1, speech start 6.7 (I've tried disabling from start up or using it doesn't make any difference).

at least on my old PC, it seems that one drive documents are causing a problem. 

Here are details for those interested: on old PC, I closed all programs, turned off computer for five minutes, turned it on and before opening Dragon, I selected Open word & it did not crash this time. About four Word documents including one drive word documents popped up and I was able to close them and I tested working in one desktop word document ok. Then I opened Dragon and was able to use it in word. Since you need to open Dragon before word for full functioning, I rebooted, and selected Open Word and word crashed. I might've rebooted. Clicked on desktop word document and was able to work with Dragon okay until I opened one drive word document, then both Word documents would immediately close. I tried opening three different one drive word documents and all previously opened Word documents (including one drive documents) would pop up and then immediately close. I clicked on desktop word document and all previous Word documents would pop up and then immediately close. I rebooted and was able to work in Word documents but had not open Dragon. I rebooted, opened Dragon, open desktop word document was able to dictate with Dragon. When I opened a one drive word doc, then both Word documents closed and then reopened and then closed again. I clicked on desktop word document and along with it reopened the one drive document but they did not close so I was able to work in the desktop word document with Dragon. But as soon as I open the one drive document then both Word documents will close and then reopen. any one drive document that I click on will cause all word documents to close, even if I turn Dragon microphone off.


so does this give any clues to a solution?



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 05/06/2022 03:57 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Try right-clicking on a Word shortcut and selecting Run as administrator. If Word crashes try it again but this time disable the Natspeak Word Addin. Note that you will loose Select-&-Say so this is not a good solution. If you have the same problem in 2 computers, you might have an incompatible utility, add-in or virus



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 05/06/2022 04:35 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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Lunis, thanks,progress!


on New & old PC: In Start I right clicked on Word, Run as administrator, but word crashed.

On old PC: I am able to get into desktop word doc and unchecked COM add-ins for NatSpeak word. Then when I opened one drive word documents, it did not crash! later, even though they were not checked, I tried to remove Dropbox for office & Fox it reader PDF creator add-in, but got pop up from Microsoft Word this add-in is installed for all users on this computer and can only be connected or disconnected by an administrator. I am the administrator, there's no one but me so what should I do?


On new PC: one drive word doc crashes but was able to get into dropbox word doc, dropbox add-in was checked even though previously I had unchecked it so I removed it. One Note About Word Documents add-in was unchecked and I also removed it. I unchecked the NatSpeak word add-in. Then I was able to open one drive word documents without them crashing!



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 05/07/2022 04:45 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Suzanne Suzanne   4. Q: Regarding creating a new Windows profile - I'm totally unfamiliar with that.

 

Running word in administrator mode and disabling the natspeak addin it is not going to resolve your issue other than show that the problem is with the Dragon addin which we already know. You can't run word without the Dragon addin if you want to be able to dictate into word.

 

You need to test Dragon with word in a "different environment" as per the Nuance technical note I have posted above which means using a new Windows user account to use the correct terminology.

 

To set up a new Windows user account as a test start Control Panel | User Accounts | Manage Another Account | Add Another User in PC settings | Add someone else to this PC. When you are then logged in as the new user you will probably need to install Dragon and possibly office(although maybe not Office if it has been installed for all users of the PC) and then try again to see if it resolves the problem. Try it as a test initially.

 

You may find the procedure above will vary slightly depending on which version of Windows 10 you are using, Reason being that Microsoft are trying to move away from using the Control panel and to do everything directly through "Settings".

 

Incidentally you tried temporarily disabling your antivirus software?

 

 

 

 

 

 



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 05/08/2022 01:12 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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New Windows user profile didn't work. 

 

Here are the details of what I did: I created a new Windows user profile (with Windows 10\Settings\Family & other users\Add someone else to this PC & follow the instructions. I signed in as that new user and did not need to reinstall Dragon but I did need to briefly train it again. I did not need to reinstall desktop office 2019. I was able to work with Dragon in dropbox, desktop and my one drive word documents with no problems at first).  I switched back to my old Windows user profile to see if I could fix the user profile by following these instructions:

https://www.techbout.com/fix-corrupt-user-profile-windows-10-9139/

But for the step for Value named State, Value Data field was already zero. I rebooted and in my old profile and was able to work in word until I opened one drive word document and then all word documents closed.

In new Windows profile, then I had the same problem of Windows crashing after opening one drive word documents. I keep trying different one drive word documents so it's obviously not one specific document. 

In case anyone is interested: Other things that I tried the did not work were disabling my antivirus software, un-registering and reregistering add-in for word and the other things mentioned in previous posts.

It appears that one drive is causing word/Dragon problems. Same problem happening on my older PC. My assistant does not use Dragon and does not have any problems accessing or working in my one drive word documents on his PC. I do not have any problem working on the one drive word documents online, but Dragon doesn't function fully online.

Microsoft told me to solve the problem to subscribe.

if anyone has any further ideas, please let me know. I appreciate everyone's help!



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 05/09/2022 03:07 AM
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Mav
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Hi!

All the efforts so far seem to be a bit uncoordinated and just a shot in the dark without identifying the real source of the crash.

When Word crashes, you should find an "Application Error" entry in your event log (start it by typing eventvwr.msc and then look for "Windows protocols"/"Application").

The least information you can get is the DLL ("Module") Word is crashing in.

Sometimes you can even see a stack trace telling us a bit more.

I cannot guarantee that this will immediately show how to solve the problem, but at least it gives us some hard facts about the origin of the crash.

 

Could you please try finding one such entry and then post its details here?

 

hth

mav

 05/09/2022 12:49 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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thanks.That sounds logical. I've attached 4 files showing the errors. For your convenience have also copied below the one showing Application Error which shows Office 16 in Faulty Application Path. On this newer PC, I uninstalled Office 16 before installing Office 19-  desktop versions.  However, just now I found in C/Program files (x86)/Microsoft Office is a folder called Office 16.  Office 19 is not listed there, but in Settings/Apps & features it shows Microsoft Office Professional +2019 & I just uninstalled & reinstalled Office 19. Could some Office 16 residual be causing the problem? I do have Office 16 on my older computer that I still use.

Does any of this give us any clues for how to fix my word crashing?

Faulting application name: WINWORD.EXE, version: 16.0.15128.20178, time stamp: 0x6263cd94

Faulting module name: dgnword.dll, version: 15.61.200.10, time stamp: 0x5f9f262a

Exception code: 0xc0000409

Fault offset: 0x000146e2

Faulting process id: 0x6100

Faulting application start time: 0x01d863bcab29e588

Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Office\root\Office16\WINWORD.EXE

Faulting module path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Program\dgnword.dll

Report Id: 82243f63-5d44-4efb-b827-57793553864f

Faulting package full name: 

Faulting package-relative application ID: 






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 05/10/2022 03:54 AM
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Mav
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Hi Suzanne and thanks for the detailled event log info.

This shows beyond doubt that you're running Word 16 (16.0.15128.20178) in combination with the Dragon Word Addin from version 15.61 (15.61.200.10 to be precise).

This Word version seems to be the one used with Microsoft 365 (at least my Word also shows Build 16.0.15128 and "Microsoft Word für Microsoft 365 MSO". Don't know what happens if you install Office 19, but since Word 16 is being executed I think only the other Office applications got updated?

Anyway, the application error also tells us that the crash itself is happening within the dgnword.dll (the Dragon Word Addin) itself and doesn't have anything to do with Onedrive.

Furthermore, the error leading to the crash has an exception code of 0xC0000409, meaning "STATUS_STACK_BUFFER_OVERRUN".

That is as much information we can give to Nuance to fix their buggy DLL, but how exactly your environment contributes to this buffer overrun remains unclear.

Another shot in the dark: Are your paths (for Word templates, for example) or file names extraordinarily long?

 

I think, highest priority should be to get your Word to open again without crashing, so I'd suggest unregistering the dgnword.dll component.

First of all, close Word.

Then, open a command line as Administrator and enter:

cd "C:\Program Files (x86)\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Program\x64"


regsvr32 /u dgnword_x64.dll

 

You should get a message that "DllUnregisterServer" has been completed successfully.

 

If you start Word now, the "NatSpeak Word Addin" should be gone from the COM-Add-Ins tab and Word can no longer crash because of this DLL.

On the other hand, you won't be able to dictate into Word directly, of course.

You could use the dictation window for the time being, even though it's not as comfortable as direct dictation, of course. But still better than not being able to work at all because of constant crashes.

 

hth

mav

 05/09/2022 03:00 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Thank you for the systematic report of your endeavours. It seems that indeed the issue is caused by the combination of OneDrive and the NatSpeak Word add-in. Since you can't get rid of the Natspeak Word add-in without losing the ability to dictate into MS Word, the obvious solution would be to ditch OneDrive in favour of a different cloud storage solution.

Hope that helps, Stephan



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 05/09/2022 06:38 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Suzanne Suzanne

 

It appears that one drive is causing word/Dragon problems…

 

Microsoft told me to solve the problem to subscribe.

 

if anyone has any further ideas, please let me know. I appreciate everyone's help!

 

 

Hi Suzanne,

Glad to hear that when setting up the new windows user account you have established the issue, by hook or by crook, is working dynamically with OneDrive. Try uninstalling and reinstalling OneDrive which should sort out any caching issues or syncing issues that may be causing the problems with Dragon.

 

To uninstall go to the start menu "Settings | apps | app and features and then scroll down to Microsoft OneDrive and uninstall (don't worry you won't lose any data).

 

To reinstall the quick way without downloading go to "C:\Windows\WinSxS in file Explorer and search for "OneDriveSetup.exe" and then just run it to reinstall OneDrive. Then restart Windows.

 

You may see an error about "no associated app…" which you can ignore as the uninstall and reinstall will still be carried out. See if that helps. 

 

Otherwise I don't know what it is about OneDrive that is causing the issue so if you must use OneDrive I could only suggest creating and editing your documents locally and then just uploading and downloading the word documents to/from OneDrive after finishing the editing or creation with Dragon locally. Otherwise use a different cloud solution as Stephan suggests.

 

Lindsay



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 05/09/2022 01:59 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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thank you for your detailed instructions for reinstalling one drive. I followed them, rebooted, open Dragon, opened a one drive word document and word crashed. It was worth a try anyway. Before, I had everything on One drive with the Status marked as off-line meaning it was downloaded to my PC so I can view it off-line. This time, I had not downloaded everything to my PC and I was hoping that would help matters, but it didn't. 

 

Has anyone else had problems with one drive and Dragon?



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 05/09/2022 02:23 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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This is a shot in the dark but Microsoft Word might be a tad corrupted. It will only take a few minutes to reinstall Word or for that matter Office (Microsoft 365). You probably already have a red square box OfficeSetup shortcut on your desktop or Taskbar



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 05/09/2022 02:45 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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thanks for your suggestion, I have Microsoft office desktop 2019 which I already uninstalled and reinstalled but that didn't help.



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 05/09/2022 03:34 PM
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matthewls
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Other folks here are more expert than me, but in past circumstances with crashing office docs I would find windows and office the culprits: empty trash bin; find all temp and tmp folders and delete all files in them (some will be open, just ignore them); run disk cleanup. I use ccleaner and defraggler pretty often. Others here will argue to avoid ccleaner's (and all other) registry cleaner, but it works for me. If none of that works, start windows in safe mode and repeat cleaning. See if you can open word in windows running in safe mode (I've never tried it, but what the heck). start word in safe mode (winword /safe) and test it. You may have a normal.dot (no m) you can try renaming (its in my C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Templates). Run a virus scan. Please report back if you try any of this. Thanks, Matthew
 05/09/2022 09:41 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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Thanks for input. Matthewls, I did rename normal.dot & just completed another full VirusScan, but word still crashes immediately upon opening any word document anywhere--When I try to open any Word document, then all The other word documents I tried to open recently, which include from one drive, Will all open and then immediately close.

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 05/10/2022 08:46 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Mav 

 

Anyway, the application error also tells us that the crash itself is happening within the dgnword.dll (the Dragon Word Addin) itself and doesn't have anything to do with Onedrive.

 

Hi Mav, Suzanne,

 

Not quite sure I follow your logic and agree with your statement above Mav, sure the event viewer(good idea) tells us the dgnword.dll is involved in the crash of word and a "failing module" (which we knew already) but you are failing to take into account that OneDrive needs to be involved before Word crashes and the event viewer flags the error with dgnword.dll. No OneDrive involvement, no crash and no event viewer logs and Dragon works perfectly with the addin and with full select-and-say.

 

So before unregistering the NatSpeak addin, kind of pointless, just avoid using OneDrive as discussed above

 

On the other hand one thing that has become apparent from the different posts and event viewer screenshots is that you seem to have more than one version of office installed and remnants of previous installations floating about which can cause problems in itself. So on that front I would suggest going to the Control Panel | Programs and features and in the search box of Programs and Features in the top right hand corner type "office". You will then see all the different versions of office you have installed and I would recommend uninstalling (right click) all the versions other than office 19. Then restart your computer and try again.

 

If that doesn't help you could also consider removing all remnants of office completely (various posts on Google) and then reinstall office 19.

 

Edit: source of info "You should avoid installing multiple versions of Office on the same Windows 10 computer if you can. It will cause all sorts of problems and may or may not work. Microsoft didn’t design them to work that way. The single biggest problem will be the file association."



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 05/10/2022 01:26 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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in case this helps anyone else, I do have a temporary fix. This does not get to the root of the problem but at least it is a workaround, albeit cumbersome:
I was able to fix my word crashing problem by exiting Dragon (not microphone off, that didn't work). Then opening One Drive word doc. With Dragon out of the picture, Word did not crash. Since Word had crashed the last time it was open, then all the previously open Word Documents also opened up. I closed all word documents and rebooted and then opened Dragon and then word was okay with Dragon even with one drive word doc. I have done this in the past and found it is only a temporary fix and then I get the word crashing problem days or weeks later.

Re: Mav Q: In one drive I do have some long filenames, a few are extremely long. Is there some length of file name that is known to cause word crashing problems?

Re Monkey 8 points:

A few days ago, I uninstalled and reinstalled office +2019 but that didn't help with the Word Crashing problem.

Newer PC: in Settings/Apps it only list Microsoft Office Professional +2019 & no other versions
BUT in C:/Program Files (x86) it only shows office 16 - - there is no 2019!
When I go in Account in Word and Outlook, it shows office + 2019.
I even checked the license type through command prompt and it shows office +2019.

I don't know why the discrepancy between 16 & 19, anyone have any clues?



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 05/10/2022 02:07 PM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Suzanne Suzanne Re: Mav Q: In one drive I do have some long filenames, a few are extremely long. Is there some length of file name that is known to cause word crashing problems?

 

Why don't you shorten the name temporarily of the OneDrive files and then try opening one to see if it helps. Long strings(Names) can cause serious problems with Dragon in various situations. That would also align with the buffer overflow message in the event viewer. How long is long and how many files? There used to be a crashing problem with Microsoft Word when the folder names that held the documents were more than 256 characters so also check the folder names as well as filenames.

 

Re Monkey 8 points:

 

A few days ago, I uninstalled and reinstalled office +2019 but that didn't help with the Word Crashing problem. Newer PC: in Settings/Apps it only list Microsoft Office Professional +2019 & no other versions BUT in C:/Program Files (x86) it only shows office 16 - - there is no 2019! When I go in Account in Word and Outlook, it shows office + 2019. I even checked the license type through command prompt and it shows office +2019. I don't know why the discrepancy between 16 & 19, anyone have any clues?

 

 

The name of the office folder means nothing, I have office 2021 installed and the folder you refer to is still called office 16. Where you find all the files also depends whether you are running 32-bit or 64-bit office, you can check here:

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/about-office-what-version-of-office-am-i-using-932788b8-a3ce-44bf-bb09-e334518b8b19



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 05/10/2022 05:12 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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thank you all for further input.

– – >Q: does anyone know how long a Word file name can be without having Dragon Problems? I have many one drive word files and some in dropbox as well that have long names which help describe what they contain, so I don't want to shorten them any longer than I have to. 

monkey 8, I appreciate you letting me know that the name of the office folder doesn't mean anything, that it can say office 16 when you really have office 2019 or 2021…

I checked and I am running 32-bit Microsoft office 2019 on my newer PC. I am running 64-bit operating system, x64 based processor, Windows 10.

– – >Q: which works with Dragon better, the 32-bit or the 64-bit Microsoft office?

I am so appreciating this forum!



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 05/11/2022 02:06 AM
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Mav
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The pure file name doesn't say much, it's the complete path that's important.

Windows has been handling paths up to 240 characters, only recently this limit has been lifted for some applications (unfortunately, Dragon is not one of those and you can run into weird problems if your speaker name and your vocabulary name are longer because of the deep directory structures Dragon uses in your profile).

What are your paths in Word set to (template paths, path for auto-restore, ...)? Are they very long for some reason?

 

Regarding 32 or 64 bit Office I haven't heard anyone mentioning any differences. They have to use a matching "NatSpeak Word AddIn" version (thus dgnword.dll vs. dgnword_x64.dll), but I'm pretty sure Nuance uses the same code for both addin versions.

 

hth

mav

 05/11/2022 03:42 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Suzanne Suzanne thank you all for further input.

 

– – >Q: does anyone know how long a Word file name can be without having Dragon Problems? I have many one drive word files and some in dropbox as well that have long names which help describe what they contain, so I don't want to shorten them any longer than I have to. 

 

As I said above long strings(Names) can cause serious problems with Dragon in various situations. That would also align with the buffer overflow message in the event viewer. Microsoft documentation states that the Windows API imposes a maximum filename length such that a filename, including the file path to get to the file, can’t exceed 255-260 characters. However, I would be more concerned about Dragon or the Dragon extension, not Windows, handling the long pathnames. Can't you move all your long filename files from OneDrive temporarily to see if it makes a difference when opening your standard named word documents from OneDrive?



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 05/15/2022 05:47 PM
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Suzanne Suzanne..
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for several days,I have been doing testing since I got word working again to see what causes it to crash. I haven't had any problem with Word documents in one drive, dropbox or desktop UNTIL I change the Microsoft account in word [you can do that in the upper right of a Word document] and opened a word doc with a long file name that was also in a folder that had a long name. then word crash and I Got pop up from Microsoft Word:

word automatically save changes to the normal document template. Do you want to load it?

I closed out of that pop up without answering it, was that what I should have done?

I will do further testing to see if changing the Microsoft account played a factor into the crashing.  I was able to go back into Word and work okay briefly. then later couldn't dictate-- even with Dictation Box DPI was putting in completely different letters and symbols--that never happened before. Off to reboot again. after reboot, word dictation working okay.



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