KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off
Topic Summary:
Created On: 05/17/2021 03:44 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - adrienneiii - 05/17/2021 03:44 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/17/2021 04:22 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - dilligence - 05/17/2021 06:08 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - Mav - 05/18/2021 02:39 AM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - R. Wilke - 05/18/2021 04:08 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - Mav - 05/19/2021 03:51 AM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - adrienneiii - 05/19/2021 01:58 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/19/2021 03:24 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - R. Wilke - 05/19/2021 12:55 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - adrienneiii - 05/24/2021 12:01 PM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - Mav - 05/25/2021 05:01 AM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - adrienneiii - 06/09/2021 07:17 AM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - Mav - 06/09/2021 09:48 AM  
 Transcription stops in the dictation box the second I turn the microphone off   - adrienneiii - 06/09/2021 10:04 AM  
Keyword
 05/17/2021 03:44 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
adrienneiii
New Member

Posts: 13
Joined: 06/30/2015

Hello there, a new problem has arisen for me in DNS when using the dictation box.

Previously, I could dictate a lengthy sentence all at once and then switch off the microphone so that ambient noise would not interfere with DNS processing. Generally, the remaining text (the part that had not yet appeared before I switched off the microphone) would pop up very quickly.

For some reason this stopped happening, meaning that I have to leave the microphone on until all of my speech has appeared in the dictation box. This is a very slow process indeed, and the time taken doesn't seem to be influenced much (if at all) by the accuracy vs. speed slider in Options.

I even set up a new profile to see if that would solve it, but am experiencing the same problem.

I really need to use the dictation box because I am using unsupported translation software. Interestingly, when I don't use it, the speech comes out very quickly directly in the software (but obviously with no initial capitalization and plenty of mistakes that can't be corrected or learned). 

Any ideas what can be causing this problem all of a sudden and how I can get back to previous efficiency? Could it be a problem with the microphone? (Tonor TC-777)

Thanks so much.

 05/17/2021 04:22 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Lunis Orcutt
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 39241
Joined: 10/01/2006

The Tonor TC-777 is designed for broadcast speaking and vocals; not speech recognition. It literally has no noise filtering which is required for speech recognition. We recommend the following:


1.  If you dictate in a noisy environment, we recommend the Audio-Technica Pro 8HEmW microphone (w/KB PLUS PACK). You will also need the recommended USB Soundcard. If your environment is reasonably quiet then you can use any speech recognition approved USB Microphone on the KnowBrainer site.


2. We recommend discontinuing using the Dictation Box because it can be fashionably late (sluggish). There are several third-party Dictation Box utilities such as SP Pro and DragonCapture. We prefer DragonCapture because it can be set to run semiautomatic (like SP Pro or fast Dictation Box) or fully automatic. DragonCapture knows when to automatically eliminate unwanted spacing and include automatic capitalization but not good for editing. KnowBrainer 2017 does lots of things but you will want to check out the Type command which will allow you to correct or edit with proper capitalization and spacing in non-Dragon friendly environments. Think of it as a one-two punch. You'll find 30 day trials of both utilities in our signature tag Trial Downloads link. 



-------------------------

Change "No" to "Know" w/KnowBrainer 2020
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ex 1



 05/17/2021 06:08 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
dilligence
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 1406
Joined: 08/16/2010

What kind of translation software are you using? Trados, memo Q?

 

It's not strange that the way your dictation is being handled is different in speech unfriendly applications (your translation software) and speech friendly applications like Notepad, WordPad or the Dragon dictation box. In speech unfriendly applications Dragon has no idea of the context. It simply throws your string of utterances (if it's not too long) in one chunk to the target. That may perhaps explain your observations. 

 

However a full sense of context is crucial when it comes to effective dictation (and there's more to that than removing unwanted spaces or capitalizing the first word). Translation work requires true Select-and-Say control, both during the dictation process as well as right after it, for editing. You may need formatting support as well.

 

This can only be accomplished with a true dictation box solution like the Dragon© dictation box or the SP Dictation Boxes (which are a lot faster and give you a gazillion of additional options). 

 

When it comes to fully automatic relaunching and transfer. That's most likely not going to be useful in your situation either because you wouldn't have genuine Select-and-Say control anymore. 

There are only two exceptions to that rule: Auto Box© and Quiet Box©. Both offer automatic relaunching and (intelligent) automatic transfers while maintaining full Select-and-Say capability.

 

However, all of this does not explain why the behavior of Dragon has changed all of a sudden. Did you update Dragon lately? Which version are you using? Has the behavior changed since a recent Windows 10 update perhaps? 

 

In general when there are background noises to be expected it's probably better to start using a headset (although that can become really uncomfortable over time).



-------------------------


Auto Box© Demo now available



 05/18/2021 02:39 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mav
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 426
Joined: 10/02/2008

Hi!

There is a setting on Dragon's microphone supposed to control whether or not Dragon should wait until the end of the current utterance before closing the input channel (aka turning off the microphone).

 

I've attached 2 voice commands you can use to check and set this option.

After importing the commands, you can say "Show microphone setting" (beware: Dragon tends to show the message box in the background) or "Set microphone immediately off to <true_or_false>".

 

While my Dragon (DPG 15.6) seems to remember the value, I couldn't actually get it to change its behavior - no matter which value I had set the option to, my recognition would always end mid-sentence as soon as I used the mike on/off hotkey or clicked the microphone button.

 

Your mileage may vary, though.

Please post your results and exact Dragon version number.

 

Regards,

mav

 05/18/2021 04:08 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7667
Joined: 03/04/2007

Mav, you are really a sweet and clever guy, but, admitting that I didn't try your scripting, and only looked at the XML, how about going with "dgnmicoptionAbortRecognition" instead.


-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage

 05/19/2021 03:51 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mav
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 426
Joined: 10/02/2008

Rüdiger, the dgnmicoptionAbortRecognition flag controls "[...]whether recognition is aborted when the mic state changes." (taken from the Client SDK API Reference).

 

In contrast, dgnmicoptionChangeStateImmediately is used for: "Immediately turns off the microphone even when an utterance is being collected or recognition is active when used in combination with the dgnmicDisabled, dgnmicOff or dgnmicPause DgnMicStateConstants."

I interprete this as "When the flag is set to false, the microphone is _not_ turned off immediately when an utterance is being collected or recognition is active" - just like the behavior the op describes and wants.

Do you agree?

 

Nevertheless, I've included an additional voice command to toggle the "abort recognition" option ("Set microhone abort to <true_or_false>") and have Dragon output the value when saying "Show microphone setting", but for me this other option is as useless as the first one.

 

Perhaps you could try importing the commands and let us know if one of them works for you or if you have found any other way to make Dragon wait for the end of an utterance before turning off the microphone?

 

Regards,

mav




 05/19/2021 01:58 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
adrienneiii
New Member

Posts: 13
Joined: 06/30/2015

Thank you so much for all these responses, I really appreciate it. I understand that the Tonor microphone may not be ideal, but the truth is it was working extremely well until this latest problem. I live in a quiet area and have hardly any background noise yet still found turning off the microphone sped up the rest of the sentence significantly. 

 

Bizarrely, however, when using it today I still have the problem of it aborting recognition the second I turn off the microphone, but the speed of the rest of the sentence has increased quite a bit, which is very helpful. Can't imagine what has changed this time either.

 

Mav, I would love to try and use  your voice commands, but I don't actually know how to use the xml content. Could you give me a quick walk through? Should I use Advanced Scripting perhaps?

 05/19/2021 03:24 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Lunis Orcutt
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 39241
Joined: 10/01/2006

How to import Mav's XML commands.

 

1. Click the MikeOptionCommands.xml link, in his previous post

2. It will probably open in your browser. Now press {Ctrl+S}

3. It will automatically default to XML when you save it. We recommend saving this file into an easy to find location such as your desktop.

4. Open the Dragon Command Browser

5. Click Manage

6. Click Import

7. Change the default, on the right side, from MyCommands files (*.dat) to MyCommands XM: files (*.xml) 

8. Browse to your desktop and double click MikeOptionCommands.xml 

9. Click Yes when prompted



-------------------------

Change "No" to "Know" w/KnowBrainer 2020
Trial Downloads
Dragon/Sales@KnowBrainer.com 
(615) 884-4558 ex 1



 05/19/2021 12:55 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
R. Wilke
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 7667
Joined: 03/04/2007

Mav, thanks for the input. I will give it a try, commitments and time constraints allowing.

-------------------------



No need to buy if all you want to do is try ...

DragonCapture KB Download (Latest)
DragonCapture Homepage

 05/24/2021 12:01 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
adrienneiii
New Member

Posts: 13
Joined: 06/30/2015

Mav, I can't thank you enough, it seems your scripts have solved my problem (Dragon Prof. Individual Version 15.30.000.006)! I thought at first they hadn't, but I think what happened is that the settings reverted to default (microphone immediately off true, microphoneabort recognition falls) when I wasn't looking :-). It seems that whenever I close the profile or the software, the settings go back to default.

So now all I have to do is memorize the commands! (By the way, your command is "microphone immediately off," whereas the dialog box that comes up in MyCommands is "microphone off immediately.") I wonder if you can think of a way to make the settings changes permanent? To be honest, I don't know why mine changed in the first place.

All in all, Dragon seems to be back to working perfectly for me now. Previous slow recognition has now speeded up immensely (again I don't know why!).

Many thanks to you all for your kind help!
 05/25/2021 05:01 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mav
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 426
Joined: 10/02/2008

Great to hear it works for you now.

Meanwhile I've performed some additional experiments since this option didn't seem to have any effect when I toggle the microphone using a hotkey (as I usually do).

Now I found out that the option actually does work if (and only if) you use the DgnMicBtn instance you set the option on to switch the microphone off!

All other instances (including the DragonBar one) mirror the microphone state, but not the option. I.e. when I use my own button to turn off the mike it works depending on the option's current value, but I couldn't get it to work using a "regular" Dragon hotkey.

Anyway, at least I seem to have found a working solution, even if it's not perfect.

 

hth,

mav

 06/09/2021 07:17 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
adrienneiii
New Member

Posts: 13
Joined: 06/30/2015

Hello again, Mav! Turns out I spoke too soon, the original script isn't really working for me in fact. What seems to be happening is that it does work if I dictate rapidly without any pauses. But if I pause, as I generally do an awful lot, it doesn't work.

As a result, I'd really like to understand your last post but it totally exceeds my technical comprehension capacity :-) is it something you think might work for me? If so, can you express it in slightly more ABC terms please? Thanks ever so much.
 06/09/2021 09:48 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mav
Top-Tier Member

Posts: 426
Joined: 10/02/2008

Well, it's something the regular user shouldn't have to care about.

 

We're a Nuance integration partner and have Dragon integrated in our dictation management solution.

Part of this solution is an application where Dragon is used for front end speech recognition with the option to send dictations to a typist for correction.

This application handles loading the speaker and topic on its own and doesn't require the DragonBar to be shown.

So in order for our customers to control the microphone, I've added our own microphone button to this application, which in turn tells Dragon what to do.

In the context of our own microphone button, I'm able to tell Dragon whether or not to immediately stop recording.

 

Unfortunately, this setting only works if I set it immediately before telling Dragon to turn off the microphone, so it has no effect on other ways of turning off the microphone - be it Dragon's own microphone button in the DragonBar or a hotkey to toggle the microphone.

 

My support request asking for a way to let this setting influence Dragon's behavior globally sits on "Defect logged" for 3 weeks now, meaning that Nuance engineering is supposed to be looking into it.

TBH, I don't expect to hear about it again, similar to quite a lot of incidents we've reported over the years...

Unfortunately, that means that you shouldn't hold your breath for Nuance to come up with a solution or workaround...

 

Regards,

mav

 06/09/2021 10:04 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
adrienneiii
New Member

Posts: 13
Joined: 06/30/2015

Oh well, definitely not applicable to my situation then. Many thanks for your time and effort, though, Mav!
Statistics
32127 users are registered to the KnowBrainer Speech Recognition forum.
There are currently 2 users logged in.
The most users ever online was 12124 on 09/09/2020 at 04:59 AM.
There are currently 307 guests browsing this forum, which makes a total of 309 users using this forum.

FuseTalk Standard Edition v4.0 - © 1999-2021 FuseTalk™ Inc. All rights reserved.