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Topic Title: Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?
Topic Summary:
Created On: 05/05/2021 09:45 PM
Status: Post and Reply
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 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - wristofdoom - 05/05/2021 09:45 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - ax - 05/05/2021 10:20 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - dilligence - 05/05/2021 10:44 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - wristofdoom - 05/05/2021 10:46 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - ax - 05/05/2021 10:59 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - Nelson - 05/05/2021 11:07 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/05/2021 11:59 PM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - wristofdoom - 05/06/2021 10:52 AM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - wheels496 - 05/06/2021 04:55 AM  
 Does using multiple microphones degrade your profile?   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/06/2021 11:42 AM  
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 05/05/2021 09:45 PM
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wristofdoom
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I recently read "The Writer's Guide to Training Your Dragon" which mentions that by using mutiple microphones of varying quality you will mess the accuracy of your profile over time, as Dragon will get confused.

 

This makes sense to me, in theory, because the sound of an utterance on GoodMic1 will be different than the sound of the same utterance BetterMic2, and if you train both pronunciations at different times then Dragon will have conflicting data about how you actually pronounce the word.

 

So, is this true? Am I degrading my profile if I'm often switching between multiple input sources of varying quality?



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 05/05/2021 10:20 PM
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ax
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Wouldn't surprise me as being true back in the days when Dragon benefited from training, as the Guide you quoted pertained to "How to Train Your Dragon".  That movie was 11 years old. Nuance's (or Philips' ?) technology has moved on.

But that's just a conjecture.

I was testing microphones side-by-side last year using my "cloud profile" simultaneously. Some microphones were better than others.  I detected no deterioration whenever I defaulted back to PowerMic or SpeechMike.

Of course, what's true for "thin (client) dragon" may not apply to "fat (client) dragon", which you use, notwithstanding that your DPI 15.6 is supposed to be training-agnostic, too.



 05/05/2021 10:44 PM
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dilligence
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I think Scott may have a point in his book. The couple of times I added new dictation sources to my profile it didn't work out so well when it came to accuracy :-(

On my system I noticed this with DPI 15.3 and DPG 15.5 but maybe it was just a coincidence. Not sure...



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 05/05/2021 10:46 PM
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wristofdoom
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The book is old but not that old. It was about DPI 15 which is what I use.


What do you mean by cloud profile? Dragon Anywhere?


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 05/05/2021 10:59 PM
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ax
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Yes in the Azure clouds of Yonderland (according to Lindsay ... I take his word for it). I have neither control nor say or even knowledge about it. Apparently Nuance owns my voice profile and everything about it.

O wait, I think Bill has 6% and Melinda now 4%?

Their co-owned "Foundation" that is dedicated to the public health and well-being of 8 billion souls own the other 15% (of my profile).

Basically I can't even put my own profile on eBay as "NFT".

At least you "own" your fat client profile. Or so I hope.
 05/05/2021 11:07 PM
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Nelson
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I used to keep my profiles separated based on the close-distant talking microphones used or microphones of different grades. In 2016, however, I changed this practice on the advice from Stephan Kuepper and kept one profile for multiple microphones, without any problems. His reply is as follows and should answer your question:

Dragon keeps the audio information related to any source in separate folders, so there can be no negative impact from one source onto another. From Dragon 14 onwards, the sources are shown by their friendly names. This eliminates the last risk there was, namely of using different mics with the same source, which could in theory, lead to audio degradation (but then again, only of this one source).



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 05/05/2021 11:59 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We've been selling Dragon and microphones since 1998. Because we conduct a lot of microphone testing, we are constantly switching out sound systems.

 

Misnomer #1 We have never seen any evidence of user profile degradation when switching out a microphone. You would need to run the Microphone Check for Dragon versions 1 to 14 but not 15; unless you have disabled auto-gain. 

 

Misnomer #2 There was a popular rumor going around that end-users should create a separate user profile for each microphone. That's not only a load of crap but it creates an enormous amount of unnecessary maintenance such as sharing commands and vocabulary.

 

Misnomer #3 Accidentally saving your user profile when you have laryngitis seems detrimental but isn't.

 

Misnomer #4 While optimizing your user profile can increase your accuracy, chances of corrupting your user profile are nearly as likely. Most end-users probably won't notice any change other than wasting time.

 

Misnomer #5 Running the Microphone Check every time you launch Dragon will improve your accuracy. NO it won't! Furthermore, unless you have disabled Dragon's auto-gain, running the Microphone Check will be completely ignored.

 

Note: The only time we recommend training a specific word is when Dragon doesn't recognize your dictation. Also note that you can't take your training with you to the next release. However, you can double your accuracy by carefully manipulating your personal vocabulary and you can take that work with you to the next Dragon release.  The Vocabulary Editor is your best friend.

 

Our “entire” dictation advice is as follows:

 

1. Only dictate when you are relaxed; not excited. Such as waiting for election results.

 

2. Dictate in long phrases (preferably 7 words or more); when possible

 

3. NEVER check, the last phrase you dictated, for mistakes. This will kill your productivity. When possible, always dictate an entire paragraph before checking. 

 

4. (Optional) You have probably noticed that the correction Spelling Window rarely helps. You usually just wind up with the same phrase in Title Case or ALL CAPS. Nuance all but killed this feature which actually worked in Ver. 12. We recommend taking the checkmark out of the Dragon Options/Commands Select commands bring up correction menu and adding a checkmark to Correct commands bring up Spelling Window. You can make correcting/editing 3 times faster by simply selecting text rather than opening the Spelling Window. If re-dictating your selected text fails, you still have the option of saying correct that to bring up the Spelling Window. This is another reason why we created the Dragon Manual

 

5. When you wish to edit or correct a word, additionally select the surrounding words to increase your accuracy odds



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 05/06/2021 10:52 AM
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wristofdoom
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>> Misnomer #3 Accidentally saving your user profile when you have laryngitis seems detrimental but isn't.

 

You're saying that it doesnt matter if I save my user profile after speaking with a different voice? This implies that Dragon isn't really learning my voice over time, which is what I've been led to believe. Have I been swindled ? Is Dragon not actually paying attention to my voice? ??

 

>> Misnomer #4 While optimizing your user profile can increase your accuracy, chances of corrupting your user profile are nearly as likely. Most end-users probably won't notice any change other than wasting time.

 

So do you just never run the accuracy tuning when it pops up?



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 05/06/2021 04:55 AM
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wheels496
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Doesn't this mean that I can drop my plans to restore my voice files this weekend. Let me explain...

Remember I have a slight speech defect and version 15 is the 1st version that I have successfully used.

Last weekend my microphone broke. This was a Plantronics C 310. I still can't believe I did not have a spare! So went onto Amazon1 a.m. Sunday morning and made a big mistake. I bought what was a suitable microphone (or so I thought)-yes partly because "Nuance Dragon", was in the title but mostly because I could get delivery on Sunday.

I am finding recognition to be mostly about 25%-50% worse than with my old microphone, although occasionally it is okay. In my opinion it is either the microphone quality or the fact that the microphone boom is more flexible, means I am finding it far more difficult to get the microphone in the exact same place.

Reluctantly, I spent more money on a Plantronics 3310 which appears to be today's equivalent of my old model. For some reason it's coming from Germany and therefore is not coming to tomorrow. Reading the above, am I correct in saying I should drop my plans to restore my voice files to last week (before the original microphone broke)?

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 05/06/2021 11:42 AM
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Lunis Orcutt
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#3 You brought up an excellent point. For example, the Big Haired Lady never creates her own profile. She simply uses a copy of mine. I occasionally wind up dictating on her computer and have not noticed a drop in accuracy. We joke about Dragon having the memory of a goldfish but that's not far from the mark. How often have you added a phrase to your vocabulary that Dragon ignores or remembers until you re-launch Dragon (after saving your profile)? We're not certain but we sometimes wonder if Dragon 15 isn't supposed to learn well. This seems to be more of a struggle the Ver. 15 Philips speech engine. The downside is obvious but the upside is that it is nearly impossible to damage your user profile. We don't necessarily believe this but if you believe that your accuracy will increase as time goes on, it reduces the chances that Nuance would have to refund your purchase in 30 days.

#4 Correct, we never optimize. However, our accuracy is close to 99%. If your accuracy is hovering around the 95% mark it might be a good idea to optimize. If optimizing damages your profile, you can always roll back the damage by switching to your backup profile



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