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Topic Title: Replacement for notepad
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Created On: 04/17/2021 12:12 PM
Status: Post and Reply
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 Replacement for notepad   - wristofdoom - 04/17/2021 12:12 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - Edgar - 04/17/2021 04:11 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - dilligence - 04/17/2021 04:18 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - Matt_Chambers - 04/17/2021 04:23 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - wristofdoom - 04/17/2021 10:13 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - MDH - 04/18/2021 10:44 AM  
 Replacement for notepad   - wristofdoom - 04/18/2021 01:20 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - Alan Cantor - 04/18/2021 03:27 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - kkkwj - 04/19/2021 11:45 AM  
 Replacement for notepad   - R. Wilke - 04/19/2021 01:11 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - kkkwj - 04/20/2021 02:42 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - Mphillipson - 04/19/2021 02:21 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - wristofdoom - 04/19/2021 02:52 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - Matt_Chambers - 04/19/2021 03:24 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - wristofdoom - 04/19/2021 06:24 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - dilligence - 04/19/2021 09:26 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - monkey8 - 04/21/2021 02:38 PM  
 Replacement for notepad   - Mphillipson - 04/23/2021 03:41 AM  
 Replacement for notepad   - alexander - 04/21/2021 11:35 PM  
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 04/17/2021 12:12 PM
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wristofdoom
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I'm currently using Notepad to edit simple text files files.

 

This has been going fine, but there is one big limitation: I cannot select an entire paragraph of text within notepad. There are no default Dragon commands for selecting or deleting a paragraph, and Notepad does not seem to have keyboard shortcuts for navigating between paragraphs (like alt + up or control + down to jump to the top or bottom of a paragraph).

 

I had given up hope that there would exist a better Select-and-Say compatible application, but then I found Black Notepad https://www.wintools.info/index.php/black-notepad

 

This is a third-party application with full Select-and-Say functionality. I'm assuming that it uses the same underlying technology as Notepad, which is why it works with Dragon.

 

Although this application has a lot of cool features, including the ability to traverse between paragraphs using control + up/down keyboard shortcut, there are some other features that are a bit lacking, that prevent me from using this app is my daily driver.

 

However, seeing a small third-party application like this that supports full Select-and-Say functionality gives me hope.

 

Is there another app out there that is basically the exact same thing is Notepad, except that it supports keyboard shortcuts to select and move between paragraphs?

 

Thank you



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 04/17/2021 04:11 PM
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Edgar
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Rumor has it that Notepad++ works fairly well with DragonĀ®'s select-and-say.

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-Edgar
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 04/17/2021 04:18 PM
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dilligence
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What about the Dragon select next/previous/number of paragraphs voice commands? They should also work in Notepad®.

 

When it comes to the keyboard shortcuts to navigate between paragraphs with alt + up or control + down to jump to the top or bottom of a paragraph, these seem to be exclusive to RichText controls used in WordPad, SP Editor, DragonPad®, DB Advanced, DB AOI and of course the more advanced Rich controls used in office applications.

 

I tried Black Notepad but those keyboard shortcuts don't seem to work there. Also the application does not appear to be DPI-Aware, rendering a blurry font on my system (125% scaling).

 

Edgar, I don't believe that Notepad++ has true Select-and-Say support. But just to make sure I will check the most recent version.



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 04/17/2021 04:23 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: dilligence Edgar, I don't believe that Notepad++ has true Select-and-Say support. But just to make sure I will check the most recent version.

 

Notepad++ does have select-and-say support, but you have to fiddle with nsapps.ini to get it to work.  There are posts here on how to do it.

 04/17/2021 10:13 PM
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wristofdoom
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This is a tangent, but If anybody wants to enable select and say for Notepad++, the following instructions from Jungar in this thread work for me on the most recent version of Notepad++ and Windows 10

 

I have quoted their full post below.

 

So just for reference - I lost my documentation on how to add Select-&-Say to Notepad++.  I figured it out again, and decided to post it where I could find it the next time I forgot (again)...  ) .   So, the text above mostly works, but:

  1. Stop Dragon (and all associated programs)
  2. Stop Notepad++ (and all associated programs).
  3. Edit the C:\%PROGRAMDATA%\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\nsapps.ini .
  4. Step 4 - Put the following text in the bottom of the file.


    [NOTEPAD++]
    App Support GUID={dd100104-6205-11cf-ae61-0000e8a28647}

    [NOTEPAD++\Enable Class Names]
    Scintilla=5

  5. Save the file. Re-run Notepad++ and Dragon (and any associated applications you use). You should be all set. (At least for windows 10 as of April 2020.)

 



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 04/18/2021 10:44 AM
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MDH
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Using DMPE 4.3 and Notepad I just say "select paragraph" after dictating it (as in the case of wanting to capitalize it all)t and it does it without fail.

 

MDH



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 04/18/2021 01:20 PM
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wristofdoom
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Selecting paragraphs in Notepad works for me. It's navigating between paragraphs that doesn't work.

 

Compare saying "move up 4 paragraphs" in Notepad vs Microsoft Word. 



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 04/18/2021 03:27 PM
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Alan Cantor
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Selecting and navigating within Notepad are both challenging, even when not driving the application by voice. The rules for both selecting and navigating are different than in other applications. Furthermore, Notepad only supports one level of undo, which means it's impossible to recover from any misstep taken two or more steps earlier.

Once upon a time, I used Notepad as an HTML editor. But I've more-or-less stopped using it for this purpose, or for any task that involves writing and revising texts. Being restricted to a single undo is a "dealbreaker."

My guess is that Microsoft keeps Notepad as "light" as possible. If someone needs a touch more functionality, there's WordPad. And WordPad is reasonably voice friendly.
 04/19/2021 11:45 AM
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kkkwj
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Just an idea - you might use Wordpad or Jarte (both wordpad under the hood). Just use a fixed-width font and it will feel like Notepad (although it is still a rich-text editor under the hood). I wish I knew what Windows messages Dragon used to implement select and say. Then someone could add the support to any one of the editor widgets out there in freeware land.

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 04/19/2021 01:11 PM
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R. Wilke
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I wish I knew what Windows messages Dragon used to implement select and say. Then someone could add the support to any one of the editor widgets out there in freeware land.


It is not about window messages, and if it was that simple, it would have been done already. It all depends on window classes and whether the "class" in use plays by certain rules. If it is any of the so-called "Rich Edit" window classes, by the MS definition, there will be no problem getting full control over what is going on in the edit box at any time:

 

About Rich Edit Controls - Win32 apps | Microsoft Docs



Dragon comes with compatibility adjustments not only for rich edit controls, but then also for a few more common ones, but any developer out there in the wild can create his or her own "standard", and that won't hurt as long he or she is not concerned with accessibility. Even worse, more and more developing seems to target so-called "Windowless Controls", which are completely off the rails, in this regard:

Windowless Controls - Win32 apps | Microsoft Docs



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 04/20/2021 02:42 PM
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kkkwj
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RW, those links were helpful. I can see that the Rich Text designation implies much more than a few windows messages. Rich text editors are very complex.

 

But I still wonder about how close (or far) from "Select and say" some of the freeware editors are. For some of them, they only seem to be missing one or two functions (usually to do with navigation and editing, not with displaying Kanji text in right to left or vertical order, or something complex like that).



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Win10/x64, AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, 64GB RAM, Dragon 15.3, SP 6 PRO, SpeechStart, Office 365, KB 2017, Dragon Capture, Samson Meteor USB Desk Mic, Klim and JUKSTG earbuds with microphones, 3 BenQ 2560x1440 monitors, Microsoft Sculpt Keyboard and fat mouse

 04/19/2021 02:21 PM
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Mphillipson
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I find that using Windows forms Rich Text Box control is fully compatible with Dragon. Probably because it is so old.

 

With regards to WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) and UWP (Universal Windows Platform) frameworks, I find the opposite is true.

 

Also any HTML 5 input or text area tags appear to support full text and control.



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Thanks Mark


 


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 04/19/2021 02:52 PM
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wristofdoom
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An update on where I am at with my original problem:


After enabling select and say functionality in Notepad++, I was excited to start using it as my primary text editor.


Unfortunately, I found that Dragon refuses to work in Notepad++ when I am editing larger text files. In some of my text files with many hundreds of lines, the dictation is unusably slow, the carot does not recognize where it is after I move it around with commands like "new paragraph" or "enter 2".


Very sad; I was excited to use Notepad++ because it has so many great features and fully customizable hotkeys. Is there anybody out there using Notepad++ who has encountered and overcome this issue associated with editing text in larger files? The issue occurs for me on 2 different devices/2 separate Dragon installations, so I am assuming the problem is not unique to my environment.


In the meantime, I am now using WordPad to edit my markdown/TXT files. It is "fine" and preferable to Notepad because it allows for multiple undo commands and better traversal of paragraphs. My main gripe with WordPad is that sometimes rich text will get mixed into my simple text files somehow (via copying and pasting mostly), so when I "save" the document, it prompts me with an alert notifying me that I'm about to save the file in simple text and my rich text will be lost. One more click, one more utterance, one more step...



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 04/19/2021 03:24 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: wristofdoom  In the meantime, I am now using WordPad to edit my markdown/TXT files. It is "fine" and preferable to Notepad because it allows for multiple undo commands and better traversal of paragraphs. My main gripe with WordPad is that sometimes rich text will get mixed into my simple text files somehow (via copying and pasting mostly), so when I "save" the document, it prompts me with an alert notifying me that I'm about to save the file in simple text and my rich text will be lost. One more click, one more utterance, one more step...

Considering switching to Jarte, which will let you set plain text as the default.

 04/19/2021 06:24 PM
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wristofdoom
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Jarte is amazing.

- Nearly full customizable hotkeys
- Full Select-and-Say functionality even in long documents
- Ability to customize the font color and background color (I like to write in dark mode, which WordPad and Notepad did not allow)
- Split view of the same document
- probably other stuff. I'm still exploring.

Thank you!

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 04/19/2021 09:26 PM
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dilligence
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 04/21/2021 02:38 PM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Mphillipson 

 

With regards to WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) and UWP (Universal Windows Platform) frameworks, I find the opposite is true.

 

 

WPF text and edit controls should be fully supported. If not make sure you run:

 

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Program\ToggleFullTextControlWPF.exe"

 

However also be aware that while the full text control WPF toggle is on it induces the Microsoft visual studio bug with various dialogues where you get server busy messages. See my post below:

 

https://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Threaded&catid=4&threadid=35372&discTab=true#185375100H

 

The reason you get server busy messages is that the dialogues in question are WPF and the Toggle doesn't quite work with them. However, like I say if you don't switch on the WPF toggle you will no longer get server busy messages with the culprit dialogues.



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 04/23/2021 03:41 AM
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Mphillipson
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Hi Lindsay,

 

Thank you for pointing this out, I was previously loading up Visual Studio as an admin, as I found this was the only way to get around the problem with the modal forms freezing Dragon and getting the server busy messages.

 

 

 



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Thanks Mark


 


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 04/21/2021 11:35 PM
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alexander
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If you're adventurous you could always try vortex https://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=25&threadid=35343&enterthread=y but it's sort of depends on your use case. Jarte is an interesting suggestion.



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