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Topic Title: DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode
Topic Summary: I use "Tray Icon Only" mode, but Dragon forgets!
Created On: 10/28/2020 08:21 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Alan Cantor - 10/28/2020 08:21 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Lunis Orcutt - 10/29/2020 03:15 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Alan Cantor - 10/29/2020 07:26 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Lunis Orcutt - 10/30/2020 09:56 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - PG LTU - 10/29/2020 03:22 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Alan Cantor - 10/29/2020 07:46 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - jzlako - 11/02/2020 01:52 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Alan Cantor - 11/02/2020 03:02 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Archway - 11/22/2020 06:12 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - ScottKN - 11/22/2020 11:02 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - Edgar - 11/22/2020 12:09 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - Alan Cantor - 11/22/2020 12:34 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - harpalus - 11/24/2020 12:12 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - Alan Cantor - 11/24/2020 10:47 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Lunis Orcutt - 11/24/2020 02:55 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - Alan Cantor - 11/24/2020 03:20 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - harpalus - 11/24/2020 09:52 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - DennisHallack - 01/04/2021 02:46 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - Lunis Orcutt - 01/04/2021 03:00 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - R. Wilke - 01/04/2021 02:56 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - supee - 01/07/2021 07:04 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - supee - 01/07/2021 07:07 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - Lunis Orcutt - 01/07/2021 11:59 AM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to   - wristofdoom - 02/02/2021 12:09 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - David.P - 02/02/2021 02:10 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Ag - 02/03/2021 12:18 PM  
 DPI 15.6 - DragonBar switches to "Cling" mode   - Lunis Orcutt - 02/03/2021 02:44 PM  
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 10/28/2020 08:21 PM
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Alan Cantor
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I'm experiencing an odd issue with DPI 15.6. I have set the DragonBar to "Tray Icon Only" mode, as I have for years. But the setting doesn't stick. When I press the key to bring up the DragonBar (which is mapped to Keypad *), the DragonBar switches from tray icon mode to cling mode.

 

Can anyone replicate this?

 10/29/2020 03:15 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We just tried this in DPG 15.6. When we press {NumKey*} it acts as a toggle and opens the Dragon bar to the default “modern” view which we use. The 1st press opens the DragonBar and the 2nd press hides it again. We can't test DPI 15.6 but it sounds like a potential bug



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 10/29/2020 07:26 PM
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Alan Cantor
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt We just tried this in DPG 15.6. When we press {NumKey*} it acts as a toggle and opens the Dragon bar to the default “modern” view which we use. The 1st press opens the DragonBar and the 2nd press hides it again. We can't test DPI 15.6 but it sounds like a potential bug

 

 

Hi Lunis,

 

What happens if you swtich from the modern DragonBar to System Tray? Then repeat the experiment.

 10/30/2020 09:56 AM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Originally posted by: Alan Cantor 

 

What happens if you swtich from the modern DragonBar to System Tray? Then repeat the experiment.

 

 

We had the same results DPG 15.6. This is how we 1st tested.



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 10/29/2020 03:22 PM
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PG LTU
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Or it is an artifact from the earlier discovery of implementing the older DragonBar modes, which I know you played around with . . .

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 10/29/2020 07:46 PM
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Alan Cantor
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Originally posted by: PG LTU Or it is an artifact from the earlier discovery of implementing the older DragonBar modes, which I know you played around with . . .

 

Hi Philip,

 

That was awhile ago!

 

I reverted back to DPI 15.3 from DPG 15.5 (?) after using it for a few weeks, mostly because of the mischief the Modern DragonBar caused me as a (mostly) non-mouse user.

 

When I installed DPI 15.6 this past summer, I didn't mess with the DragonBar because System Tray mode seemed to work, at least until a few days ago, when the DragonBar started defaulting to "cling" mode. 

 

I don't know for sure, but I think Nuance is committed to getting rid of the Classic DragonBar (which includes cling mode). I think this is a mistake unless Nuance deals with accessibility issues connected with the Modern DragonBar. I've tried to communicate with Nuance about these issues, but the problems continue, version after version after version.

The problems don't affect most people. But they affect people (like me) who interact with Windows and Windows applications primarily via a keyboard instead of via mouse.



 11/02/2020 01:52 PM
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jzlako
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Originally posted by: Alan Cantor
Originally posted by: PG LTU Or it is an artifact from the earlier discovery of implementing the older DragonBar modes, which I know you played around with . . .

 

 

I don't know for sure, but I think Nuance is committed to getting rid of the Classic DragonBar (which includes cling mode). I think this is a mistake unless Nuance deals with accessibility issues connected with the Modern DragonBar. I've tried to communicate with Nuance about these issues, but the problems continue, version after version after version.

 

The problems don't affect most people. But they affect people (like me) who interact with Windows and Windows applications primarily via a keyboard instead of via mouse.

 

I rely  on the old DragonBar and it's accessibility functions primarily using DPI 15.3 and through keyboard as well, and I would hate to see Nuance remove previous software functionality for the disabled that has worked well over the years. I'm glad you contacted Nuance about these issues.

 



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 11/02/2020 03:02 PM
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Alan Cantor
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I rely  on the old DragonBar and it's accessibility functions primarily using DPI 15.3 and through keyboard as well, and I would hate to see Nuance remove previous software functionality for the disabled that has worked well over the years.

 

I hope people from Nuance monitor these discussions and pay careful attention to the valuable feedback that seasoned Dragon users are providing them.

 

Just to be clear:

 

From the moment of its introduction through to the recent (premature) release of Version 15.6, the Modern DragonBar has broken accessibility for people who access computers via keyboards. Although it would be good for Nuance to fix the DragonBar, they don't have to -- provided they keep the "classic" DragonBar as an option.

 11/22/2020 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by: Alan Cantor I'm experiencing an odd issue with DPI 15.6. I have set the DragonBar to "Tray Icon Only" mode, as I have for years. But the setting doesn't stick. When I press the key to bring up the DragonBar (which is mapped to Keypad *), the DragonBar switches from tray icon mode to cling mode.

 

 

 

Can anyone replicate this?

 

 

Just to confirm that I have this issue too.

The tray icon mode setting does not stick and on my system flips to modern dragon bar but the other possible settings - docked to top, docked to bottom, floating and cling - all work correctly and the setting sticks.

There is still a tray icon, but the right click context menu that gave access to all the various tools has disappeared and is replaced by options of "Open" or "Exit Dragon" if a DragonBar is not open or "Minimize to tray" or "Exit Dragon" if a DragonBar is open.

 11/22/2020 11:02 AM
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ScottKN
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I have it as well with DPI 15.6.1
 11/22/2020 12:09 PM
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Edgar
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When I trialed 15.6 a couple of months ago I had the same problem. It was probably the primary reason I reverted.

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-Edgar
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 11/22/2020 12:34 PM
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Alan Cantor
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In 15.61, I think I'm seeing a problem when the the DragonBar has been set to Tray Icon mode.

When I press the Windows key, the Tray Icon DragonBar transforms into the Modern DragonBar. This leads to two problems: I'm suddenly dealing with a DragonBar mode I don't want; and the DragonBar steals focus.

Can anybody replicate this?
 11/24/2020 12:12 AM
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harpalus
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DPI 15.61 seems to be a nuanced step backwards except for fixing the Microsoft certificate problem.


The DragonBar choices for DPI 15.61 are very confusing. If I press the*key on the keypad while numlock is on and DragonBar is restricted to taskbar, I get a clinging bar that offers the following choices for different types of bars: DragonBar docked to top, DragonBar docked to bottom, floating DragonBar, clinging DragonBar, new DragonBar, and tray icon only.

If I press the Windows key while the DragonBar is set to tray icon only, I get the new modern DragonBar. That bar vanishes as soon as I start dictate, with the material dictated going into this search part of the taskbar.

The only thing that DPI 15.61 fixed is the Microsoft certification. If Microsoft outlook (Microsoft 365) is open and I try and dictate in a different program such as Microsoft Word. I very soon get freeze after freeze. Of course I also still get freeze after freeze if I dare to try to dictate into Microsoft Outlook.

Notice the period in the paragraph above after Microsoft Word. I did not dictate that period. The recognition history does not show that I said it. I did not hesitate after Microsoft Word. Dragon apparently simply decided to add a period. Will be posting about this.


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GaryN

 11/24/2020 10:47 AM
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Alan Cantor
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Hi Gary,

The bizarre behaviours you are reporting with the DragonBar are almost identical to the ones that I'm seeing. These UI problems are getting in the way of my work, and I'm considering reverting back to DPI 15.3. In that version, the DragonBar didn't work especially well via keyboard, but at least it was less broken than it appears to be in 15.61.
 11/24/2020 02:55 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Gary & Alan,

Have you tried creating a new user profile for experimental purposes? While we are not experiencing these problems, we are also using the Group version of Dragon



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 11/24/2020 03:20 PM
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Alan Cantor
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Hi Lunis,

Creating a new profile doesn't help.

You may not notice this particular issue unless you access and interact with the DragonBar via keyboard instead of via mouse (and/or voice).

Problems with keyboard interaction to the DragonBar began with the introduction of the Modern DragonBar. I alerted Nuance about these accessibility issues nearly three years ago, and received assurances from Nuance that "a team [is] already engaged to perform [accessibility] reviews for upcoming versions of Dragon."

Nuance did fix one problem that I documented in a subsequent Dragon release, yet other accessibility problems remained. With DPI 15.61, keyboard access problems seem to be worsening.
 11/24/2020 09:52 PM
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harpalus
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Hi Lunis,


Created a new profile does not help. I also have noticed the followingn [notice the extra letter as part of the word following] with both 15.6 and 15.61. When I create a new profile I go into options and select the choice of having Dragon bar show only in the taskbar. After I choose that option, the DragonBar indeed goes down to the taskbar. Once I quit DPI and restart it, I again have the modern DragonBar visible at the top of the screen. If I go into the options again, I find that the appearance choice for the DragonBar has shifted from my previous choice of visible only in the taskbar back to showing as the modern DragonBar. In other words the appearance option that I select keeps reverting to modern DragonBar. The user profile currently open was created yesterday. Under commands I had selected the choice of requiring the word click to access a menu choice. Yesterday for some reason DPI 15.61 began to interpret various words as commands even though such words were not used in any commands visible in the Command Browser. I don't normally dictate the word profile but yesterday used it several times and found that DPI quite often regarded it as a command that did nothing. Today with the new user profile I found that DPI twice regarded the utterance of profile as a command that did nothing visible. Recognition history showed that one utterance was regarded as a command named "profile" and once as a command named "Profile". Subsequently I was able to several times dictate profile without it being recognized as a command. I will try dictating it 10 times . That experiment resulted in recognition history showing that I uttered a command named "Profile" 10 times in a row. Naturally I have tried dictating material and opening up the correction window to have such material automatically play back, and find that my recorded voice sounds just fine without any static whatsoever. I simply do not know what is going on with DPI 15.61 but think I will have to revert to 15.6. Version 15.6 did not randomly select words that it would regard as commands nor did it insert extra letters into words. 

 

 

I saved a screenshot as a JPEG file but was unable to do anything other than repeatedly uploaded to Knowbrainer forum. We'll see if I can get it to be an attachment. I think I got it to be an attachment.

 

 

 

 






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 01/04/2021 02:46 PM
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DennisHallack
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Just downloaded and installed 15.61 -- also uninstalled and reinstalled KP 2017 -- and the bizarre behaviors reported with the DragonBar are almost identical to the ones that I'm seeing.

These UI problems are getting in the way of my work.

I'm considering reverting back to DPI 15.3. In that version, the DragonBar didn't work especially well via keyboard, but at least it was less broken than it appears to be in 15.61.

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 01/04/2021 03:00 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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It is unnecessary to reinstall KnowBrainer 2017 (w/2020 AI Commands) but since you have, you might want to rerun the KBCommandsUpdater to bring KnowBrainer up to date. Also note that nearly all DragonBar menus are already included in KnowBrainer so the DragonBar is now optional. Some examples include saying Vocabulary Editor, Command Browser, What Did I Say, Auto-Formatting Options or I Did Not Threaten the Georgia Secretary.



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 01/04/2021 02:56 PM
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R. Wilke
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Before reverting back to DPI 15.3, start by eliminating KnowBrainer from the equation, as a potential culprit. As an example, saying something such as "profile" should never invoke a command to be executed, which might take you to places which you never knew they existed, and never wanted to go to by any means. Preventing this kind of situations would be one of the things someone in charge would have to deal with.

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 01/07/2021 07:04 AM
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supee
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This is happening to me too, and it's irritating. Any solutions apart from reverting to 15.3?



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 01/07/2021 07:07 AM
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supee
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What is the best way to revert to 15.3 from 15.61


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DPI 15.3, XPS 9575,  Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, 1TB SSD. Sennhesser ME3,  Philips Speechmike Premium 3500, Windows 10, Office 2016.

 01/07/2021 11:59 AM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Unfortunately, you'll have to uninstall Ver. 15.61 before you can reinstall 15.3

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 02/02/2021 12:09 PM
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wristofdoom
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I have been living with this problem ever since I updated to 15.6. It's not too bad, because I leave my computer on a lot, so I mostly need to reset it when I restart.

Is there a hotkey/command I can say that will automatically switch to "tray icon only" so I don't have to click so many buttons to go back to the tray mode?

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 02/02/2021 02:10 PM
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David.P
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I've given up on Tray Icon Only mode after about 15 years because it is a) limited and b) broken since v.15.6.

Instead I use the classic toolbar and keep it minimized to the taskbar.



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 02/03/2021 12:18 PM
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Ag
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Originally posted by: David.P Instead I use the classic toolbar and keep it minimized to the taskbar.

 

Q: how do you select Classic Toolbar instead of the Modern Toolbar?

 

I have not been able to find the classic toolbar since I upgraded to DPG 15.6. More precisely, as reported in Dragon.log:

 

Dragon Version 15.60.200.015 (Service Pack 6)
Edition: ProfessionalGroup

 

Or is it that DPG 15.6*   offers only the classic toolbar, but DPI 15.61 offers both the classic and modern toolbars?   I have a DPI  15.6x license installed, but not on my primary PC.  This may motivate switching.  I much prefer the classic toolbar. (Although I  really do wish that any of them could be relocated by AutoHotKey.)

 



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 02/03/2021 02:44 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Other than through a hack that currently eludes us, Nuance removed the Classic Toolbar from DPG 15.61. Both options are only available in Individual and Medical versions of Dragon. We suspect Nuance is readying for a more 'Cloudish' DragonBar view in the upcoming DGA (not yet available) and DPA (already released but unpopular).



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