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Topic Title: Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.
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Created On: 09/27/2017 01:15 PM
Status: Post and Reply
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 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - wheelstb - 09/27/2017 01:15 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Edgar - 09/27/2017 01:47 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - danw700 - 09/27/2017 08:45 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Scribe - 09/28/2017 10:49 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - lifeisgood - 09/28/2017 05:56 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Stephan Kuepper - 09/29/2017 04:09 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - wheelstb - 10/17/2017 09:00 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - artsilen - 07/20/2018 05:41 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - jcmcvay - 07/21/2018 12:56 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Nelson - 07/21/2018 03:21 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - docinfniti - 07/26/2018 12:33 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - kkkwj - 07/26/2018 11:38 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Tiger Feet - 08/16/2018 02:46 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Nelson - 08/16/2018 04:49 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Tiger Feet - 08/17/2018 07:31 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Nelson - 08/27/2018 12:12 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Tiger Feet - 08/28/2018 06:48 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Nelson - 08/28/2018 11:16 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Tiger Feet - 08/28/2018 12:31 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Nelson - 08/28/2018 01:56 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - Nelson - 08/28/2018 02:02 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - gasolo - 08/10/2018 08:05 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - dilligence - 08/10/2018 04:39 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - R. Wilke - 08/10/2018 05:18 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - danw700 - 08/16/2018 01:47 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - kkkwj - 09/19/2022 11:02 AM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - gasolo - 09/29/2022 08:42 PM  
 Advice on proofreading when it comes to speech recognition.   - ax - 09/30/2022 02:25 PM  
Keyword
 09/27/2017 01:15 PM
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wheelstb
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Hello,

 

I am trying to start a copywriting business. One problem I am running into is not catching all of the misrecognitions. I know that employing a proper dictation style is the first step. You will have less misrecognitions to begin with.

 

A couple of years ago there were a few good threads regarding software's that were helpful for word choice/proofreading and proofreading techniques. I know that software won't fix the problem. However, I remember different writers were talking about programs they used to help catch mistakes and improve word choices.

 

I have tried searching, and I have been unable to find these particular threads.

 

Any advice regarding proofreading techniques or software to help catch mistakes and enhance writing would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Tom

 09/27/2017 01:47 PM
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Edgar
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I write technical material and fiction, I also edit software manuals for a couple of very complicated applications. Keep in mind that software can only spot some of the problems! Surprisingly, I find that Microsoft Word does a great job at spotting many spelling and grammar errors; go into the settings and ensure that it is set to be as critical as possible. While it is great at spotting true misspellings and typos (hte for the) if the spelling matches a real word (pain/pane) it rarely notices. It's grammar lexicon leaves a bit to be desired but is far better than nothing.

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 09/27/2017 08:45 PM
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danw700
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Proofreading your own material is always problematic particularly with a brain like mine because I know what I meant :-) in my mind I adjust the text to what it ought to be internally as it were and so miss the misrecognition

Dragon will play back in your own voice or an artificial voice but I do not think it is very good because you cannot highlight the words when playing back with your own voice.

I use a program called TextAloud
http://nextup.com/

 

This program has many features but the one that I use the most is that it has a special proofreading window. Any highlighted text is brought up into a window and the text read back to you with each word highlighted. There are tons of voices but I use a female English one. I am on the beta testing team and we are polishing off a new version and the proofreading box is working better than ever. Because I would like to be able to make corrections in the proofreading box but that is not possible as yet. You can basically pause the proofreading and make your changes in the original text and then continue on. I think the best thing to do if you are interested is to give it a whirl.

Personally I have found that as Dragon has got better at recognising my speech import picking misrecognitions has become more problematic because there are less of them.

Dragon does not make spelling mistakes – I used to spend a lot of time on grammar and punctuation with all sorts of utilities but I would have to agree with Edgar that MS Word does a pretty good job. Mind you English grammar is one of those shifting estuary deltas – constantly changing away under your very feet.

I have just finished a work for publication on the grammar and punctuation of the King James Bible – at least the grammar and punctuation in this case is reasonably consistent from the start to the finish :-).

In TextAloud I call up the proofreading box by voice although I have never been able to completely polish off the script because I do not know the proper command for a paragraph selection and a line selection. It is on my to-do list one of these days so I basically double-click the paragraph to select it or say select paragraph or select line but it would be nice to have this in a script as part of the overall pulling up of the proofreading window.

You will find that TextAloud is infinitely filled with options and you can designate full control over the audio device that you wish to use with the program – something that I wish Dragon would do.


I have played with and brought some fairly expensive solutions in the past but I basically dropped it down to doing it like this these days.

Cheers for now
Dan



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 09/28/2017 10:49 AM
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Scribe
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I am going to second Edgar's recommendation of Microsoft Word's spelling and grammar checker. Make sure both of these two features are turned on. I do a certain amount of copyediting as a sideline, and I find that the grammar checker, in particular, is impressive.

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 09/28/2017 05:56 PM
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lifeisgood
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Also do not forget the AutoCorrect feature in MS Word.
If you see a wiggly red line under a word you can right-click on the word, then select AutoCorrect, and select the correct spelling, then when you press the spacebar (either by hand or saying press spacebar) the word will be replaced with the correct word.
 09/29/2017 04:09 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Dragon doesn't misspell words, so the MS Word spell checker will only take you so far. I suggest the MS Word grammar checker (which puts wiggly green lines under the words) since that will catch most recognition errors, at least those that distort the grammatical structure of a sentence.

Hope that helps, Stephan

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 10/17/2017 09:00 AM
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wheelstb
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Thank you all for the replies. I have used spelling and grammar checker. They are both turned on. I was hoping to find something a little more robust.

Dan, your solution sounds very interesting. I will check it out.

Thanks again for the replies.
 07/20/2018 05:41 PM
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artsilen
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The only surefire to dictate error-free documents is to print them out, and then edit them line by line. Automated spelling and grammar checks will get you only so far. Spell check will not catch words that are correctly spelled, but not the one you need: i.e., our for are; and for an, and so on. Nor will spell check or grammar check catch redundancies in your writing/dictating. Depending upon your writing style, you may find yourself making multiple drafts as your document progresses from inception to completion. Not infrequently, I find myself putting dictation aside entirely until I rethink what I am trying to say, and how best to express it. Sometimes, clarity of thinking can only be done with the pencil and paper.

 

On-screen proofreading is only partially effective. Normal typing includes the mental activity associated with spelling; dictation does not. In the English language, words may be pronounced differently from how they are spelled. Homonyms are spelled differently from the way they sound in ordinary speech. This is part of the science of Artificial Intelligence; and although the technology is rapidly improving, it is far from perfect.

 

The Dragon dictation box is an effective tool for composing and dictating relatively short blocks of dictation, but it needs to be emptied frequently, and and its contents transferred to a permanent text file. I find it easier to proofread text in the dictation box than on a document screen, and that is why I make such frequent use of it.

 

For words having unique spellings that find their way into repetitive usage, I write custom text commands, rather than having to change mental focus and dictate them letter by letter. You can check text commands visually much more quickly and accurately than by trying to modify the general vocabulary.



-------------------------

Art Silen


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 07/21/2018 12:56 PM
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jcmcvay
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Misrecognitions are a problem all Dragon users have to deal with. Dragon has achieved very high levels of accuracy, but even with a 99% recognition level, that still means that on average Dragon misrecognizes one word out of every hundred.

I suspect we all have different approaches to handling this problem. My approach may not be practical for you, but I'll describe it anyway. You might find something useful.

As others have pointed out, Dragon doesn't misspell words. However, it may not spell a given word as you prefer to spell it. Once you notice that Dragon's spelling is not your preference, you can of course correct a word's spelling in Vocabulary Editor/Properties; you just have to do it one word at a time.

Then too, if your workflow includes a combination of dictation and typing, running spell check is a necessity. I'm a translator, and if I'm translating a long document that includes repeated uses of words not in Dragon's vocabulary, I will add them. These may include foreign names,, foreign words, or technical terms. Also, I may manually type corrections to misrecognitions I catch as I go along. Mistakes are possible in all of those actions.

Once I have finished a translation, I set it aside for several hours  -  sometimes even until the next day. Then I check it over at least twice, once for accuracy of translation and wording, and once for punctuation, spelling, and misrecognitions. Provided my deadline allows it, I will use Dragon's built in text-to-speech feature to read the document to me as I check it.

If possible, I leave the final check until the next day. That way, I will have largely forgotten what I intended to say and can review the document with a fresh eye.

I have been proofreading my translations on screen for years and have found that to be a perfectly reasonable approach for me. I don't feel a need to print out a document for proofreading. However, I recognize that this may not be optimal for everyone.



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James McVay



 07/21/2018 03:21 PM
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Nelson
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Tom, it appears this might be the thread you were looking for. It was posted last year

http://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=15880



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 07/26/2018 12:33 AM
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docinfniti
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I use wordperfect. In wp you can take a word/phrase and add it to a dictionary. That way if there is a critical item to be recognized, spell checker can find it. But, at the end of the day, if it's critical, check it while dictating
 07/26/2018 11:38 AM
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kkkwj
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I use Dragon (and many custom words and phrases) to reduce errors going into the Word document. Then I use Word spelling/grammar, then Grammarly (_excellent_!!) pick up things that Word ignores. I also play back the text to catch missing words and awkward phrases on some documents.

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 08/16/2018 02:46 PM
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Tiger Feet
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Originally posted by: kkkwj I use Dragon (and many custom words and phrases) to reduce errors going into the Word document. Then I use Word spelling/grammar, then Grammarly (_excellent_!!) pick up things that Word ignores. I also play back the text to catch missing words and awkward phrases on some documents.


kkkwj,

you say that Grammarly is excellent.  

On their website shown on the first link below, they do not tell you how much it costs.  Nor do they say if there is a free trial so you can try it first before you buy.  I'm wondering, do you have to buy a subscription first before you can sample the works as it were, caveat emptor?

The second link below shows another editor software called StyleWriter.  They give the prices for all the versions of their editor software and they give a free trial.

Can you tell me if you had to pay for your subscription first before you tried Grammarly?

How long was the subscription for that you bought and how much was it?  

How much was it for any other subscriptions?

Finally, are you very happy with it, is it easy to use and does it do what it says on the tin?

https://www.grammarly.com/1?network=g&utm_source=google&matchtype
=e&gclid=CjwKCAjwwdTbBRAIEiwAYQf_E4HsTgBTAag4KqFnJzg6RSZkYc0-izMIAt64hOLrCxedYWizFiDjcRoC1IkQAvD_BwE&placement=&q=brand&utm_
content=229882672988&utm_campaign=brand_f1&utm_medium=cpc&utm_
term=grammarly


http://www.stylewriter-usa.com/buy-stylewriter-software.php

Cheers



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Tiger Feet

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 08/16/2018 04:49 PM
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Nelson
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Tiger Feet:

 

I have used StyleWriter for many years.  The utility is primarily to assist in making your writing more concise, using the plain english model.  It has a large array of options and customizations that fine-tune things for your writing style and audience. The only drawback, in my opinion, is it does not reside in Outlook, so any text that needs to be assessed has to be cut and pasted into Microsoft Word.  The other thing to note is it does not use a subscrition purchase, like Grammarly.  The other thing they are highly responsive to any issues that come up.  If you are looking for a good editor consider this product.  I never send anything out without running it through StyleWriter 4.

 



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 08/17/2018 07:31 AM
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Tiger Feet
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Thanks Brian for your detailed analysis on StyleWriter.  I like the fact that they give you a free trial first and that they show the prices on all their software versions.

I would still be interested to know the answers to the questions that I put to kkkwj regarding Grammarly. 

Perhaps he or she will comment soon.

Cheers



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Tiger Feet

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 08/27/2018 12:12 PM
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Nelson
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Tiger Feet,

 

I am not sure whether you received any more feedback about electronic grammar checkers-editors. I found this review https://grammar-checker.financesonline.com/ to be useful in assessing the various strengths and weaknesses of each application.  However, since my specific needs often differ from reviewers, I trial-tested most of the top ten rated applications to see whether it was suitable for my writing, involving legal work.  I decided no one application does everything well.  As a result, I added Grammarly Premium and ProWritingAid Premium to my use of StyleWriter 4 as an editor.  This, of course, is overkill, but collectively they give me all the functions needed for my work.

 

Altogether, I think, Grammarly is over-rated and expensive that does not cater to serious writers.  I only bought it because it provided a function not available in other applications. ProWritingAid is a good user-friendly grammar checker-editor that picks up most grammatical errors or problems.  It is expensive subscription-based, but can be purchased for $175 (American) for a lifetime subscription. Once using both, I then have StyleWriter 4, which provides a much more, in-depth assessment of the writing.  In most of my uncomplicated writings, such as email communications, I resort to ProWritingAid for a quick and reliable analysis. 

 

In the end, the user needs to determine their requirements, whether one or more grammar checkers-editors are needed and how much they want to spend.  However, I would strongly recommend trial testing these applications as they are hyped and the actual performance is much different in reality.

 



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 08/28/2018 06:48 AM
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Tiger Feet
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Brian, in light of your latest post, would you mind answering these questions for me please?

I added Grammarly Premium...


Did you have to pay a subscription right off the bat, if so, how long was the subscription for and how much did it cost?  Or, do they let you have a free trial first?

Grammarly is over-rated and expensive that does not cater to serious writers.  I only bought it because it provided a function not available in other applications


What was the function in Grammarly that was not available in other applications?  I ask this because it may be something that I need.

I would strongly recommend trial testing these applications as they are hyped and the actual performance is much different in reality.


That's not a problem with StyleWriter but what about Grammarly Premium, did you just have to buy the cheapest subscription to trial test it first?

Cheers



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Tiger Feet

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 08/28/2018 11:16 AM
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Nelson
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Tiger Feet,

 

Attached is the Microsoft Grammarly Add-In (https://www.grammarly.com/office-addin/windows) that was downloaded initially, which gave a couple weeks to test.  This version is not the Premium version, so I took a subscription out for one year, which costs $139.99 (American). The function available in Premium that motivated me to upgrade to Premium is it has a paragraph assessment tool https://www.grammarly.com/blog/splitting-paragraphs/ that makes recommendations on the length of a paragraph (splitting paragraphs).  Since my writing tends to be very lengthy legalese where paragraphs tend to be long in the range of 5-10 sentences, I thought this function would be useful in making the writing more readable.  In my opinion, receiving numbers about reading ease does very little for me.  I needed something more useful.

 

 





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 08/28/2018 12:31 PM
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Tiger Feet
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Thanks Brian.

I assume you can use all these editors together in Microsoft Word at the same time then?

Cheers



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Tiger Feet

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 08/28/2018 01:56 PM
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Nelson
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Tiger Feet,

Each resides in Microsoft Word.  Grammarly and ProWritingAid have their own headings, whereas StyleWriter 4 is an add-in that gets deployed when you want to check a part of the document or the whole document.  StyleWriter 4, currently does not work in Outlook.  It must be cut and pasted into Word for analysis and pasted back into Outlook.



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 08/28/2018 02:02 PM
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Nelson
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Tiger Feet,

I didn't answer your question precisely.  Yes, they can be opened in Word together.  In fact, I routinely switch as the writing progresses between them and refresh the analysis as needed.



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 08/10/2018 08:05 AM
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gasolo
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I am so glad we are having this discussion on proofreading as it's probably one of the more important things needed to be mastered when using speech recognition. There is nothing worse than writing a document or filling in a text box that looks like it was done by a first grader. Over the years, I tried many things. For years, what worked best for me was dictating and then issuing the command to call up a program called "WhiteSmoke". That program pulled up a nice box highlighting what needed to be corrected. However, they got greedy and started charging by the month which was a big no-no for me.

About a year ago, I saw a post concerning a program called, "speech productivity dictation box". I downloaded it and I have to say it is almost perfect for proofreading. Here's how it works. With the microphone on I say, speak(then text that I am dictating). It brings up this beautiful enhanced dictation box with font that is crystal clear black against a bright white background. I then say the usual "select all and read that" it reads back what I wrote and clearly and simply points out any errors that now become obvious. You don't have to do the read back part as the box itself is very clear. I do that for extra assurance.

 When I go back and reread my previous dictations, I'm surprised and proud at how well they come out. It has given me a lot of confidence.

The URL is:

speechproductivity@gmail.com



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GaSolo



 08/10/2018 04:39 PM
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dilligence
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Thanks for the positive words on the SP Dictation Box Gary!

 

SP will soon be updated to version 4.3. One of the improvements is the Speaker "Read now" command which combines "select all" and "read that" in one short command. If you are using any of the SP 4 versions Speaker should already be installed (from the "read that" in your comment I understand you are using Dragon TTS voices?)

 

For those who are not familiar with Speaker. It uses your Windows 10 voice and works everywhere (Dragon TTS voices often don't work in browsers, some email clients and other programs. Speaker is the perfect proofreading tool.

With Speaker you can select text from any source and say: "Read this"

If you want to stop the reading say "press end" or press the End key manually.

 

If you like you can already implement the "Read now" command in your current SP installation:

 

Open your Dragon Command Browser.

In the top left corner click "Mode" and then click "Script".

Locate the "Read this" command and then double-click it.

Now click on the "Create New" button.

 

Command name:

 

Read now

 

DVC script:

 

SendKeys "{Ctrl+a}"

Wait 200

SendKeys "{Ctrl+c}"

Wait 100

ShellExecute "C:\Program Files (x86)\Speech Productivity\Speaker.exe"

 

 

Note: This is a DVC script don't use it for Advanced Scripting commands.



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 08/10/2018 05:18 PM
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R. Wilke
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I then say the usual "select all and read that" it reads back what I wrote and clearly and simply points out any errors that now become obvious.

 

How about taking it to a completely different dimension then and have all your dictation read back automatically, with no further action involved?

 

If you are interested, have a look at DragonEcho.

 

It it all pure API stuff and doesn't require any scripting, calling into AHK executables or the like. For that matter, it works with anything from DNS 13 Home upwards.



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 08/16/2018 01:47 AM
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danw700
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Yes my friend Rüdiger has written a very useful utility. DragonEcho does a fantastic job.

I have been absent from this forum for 14 weeks. I'm lying in a hospital bed over this period, having sustained an accident while visiting my local hospital. I normally have email notifications for all activity on the forum but I've had to shut that down as I am using a Wi-Fi modem and my netbook while in hospital and I can't keep up with the volume of emails.

I think it will be another 12 weeks at least before I can get back home. In the meantime I'm using Dragon on this netbook and it is performing surprisingly well.

Cheers for now
Dan



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The forum has me as a Top-Tier Member NO I am a laid-back layman

 09/19/2022 11:02 AM
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kkkwj
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Tiger Feet, I see that I missed answering your questions from long ago - my apologies. I have used Grammarly Premium for six years now. I write and check documents every day, all day. I don't even bother running Word spell checks and grammar checks anymore unless my boss specifically requests it.

IMHO, nothing else even comes close to 1) running a Grammarly check (I use the Correctness setting only), and 2) running a listening/playback test. NOTHING is as good as playing big chunks (half pages, whole pages, or the whole document) of text when you are polishing the document. I find that my ear picks up all sorts of things that Word and Grammarly cannot find (missing words, double words spelled correctly, awkward phrases, dangling modifier phrases, and so on.)

I can make corrections fairly efficiently by voice too, by saying "Grammarly down" to click a mouse on the G down button, , G down, G correct, and so on. I can go faster with my hands (and do so when I'm in a hurry on a big document), but I like to practice my voice technique in correcting the smaller documents by voice only.

I *strongly* recommend Grammarly Premium (I have always used Premium; I can't remember why - maybe a custom dictionary?). I run three addins in Word - Natspeak, Grammarly, and Acrobat PDF.

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Win10/11/x64, AMD Ryzen 7 3700X/3950X, 64/128GB RAM, Dragon 15.3, SP 7 Standard, SpeechStart, Office 365, KB 2017, Dragon Capture, Samson Meteor USB Desk Mic, Amazon YUWAKAYI headset, Klim and JUKSTG earbuds with microphones, 3 BenQ 2560x1440 monitors, Microsoft Sculpt Keyboard and fat mouse

 09/29/2022 08:42 PM
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gasolo
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The absolute best way to proofread lots of copy is to use the talkback features in speechproductivity text boxes. I teach University and the last thing I would ever do is post a response to a student that is not impeccably perfect. What I do is issue the command, " DB" dictate my text and then it allows you to make up one word that will quickly and clearly read back to text. My word is, " GO". When I say that, the text gets read back and then I hit transfer which finds the target area for the text. It works great and I am not sure why everyone doesn't do that. I could not imagine simply dictating and hoping for the best. In fact, I am dictating this note in that very way.



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 09/30/2022 02:25 PM
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ax
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Originally posted by: gasolo

 

The absolute best way to proofread lots of copy is to use the talkback features in speechproductivity text boxes. I teach University and the last thing I would ever do is post a response to a student that is not impeccably perfect. ...

 

Not wanting to come across as a nitpicking pedant, I nevertheless wish to interject that the talkback (not by any means specific to SP or EchoDragon) feature is not a substitute to proofreading at all.  It might be useful as a means to give your eyes a rest, which I agree is important these days.  But that's it.

 

The "proofing-by-ear" is not only slower, but in some ways requires even greater and a different degree of concentration.


Being peccably imperfect, I just need my clinical communication to be free of major "meaning-change" dictpos.  Sometimes Dragon appends a singular verb suffix where none is needed, or adds an indefinite article in front of something it shouldn't (such as "someone's father had a ... cancer"), which tends to be exceedingly annoying but can nevertheless be overlooked.

Not to mention that some of the meaning-altering dictpos are homonyms.  Or near homonyms.  I just had an example where I dicated into an email, now that I could with DMO, where I meant to refer to two person jointly by their first name: XXXX and YYYY.  Yet Dragon puts XXXX M. YYYY.  I tested this with Windows 10 narrator (which SP uses, not sure about EchoDragon).  It doesn't really pick up the difference in any "readily aubible" manner.


And it most definitely does not replace grammar-proofing.  Not that anyone should expect their doctor to have "impeccably perfect" grammar (sorry gary).

 

For proofing, my hope is still on "AI".  Dragon itself could do better in terms of "real-time grammar/syntax proofing", at the price it is charging for cloud products.



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