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Topic Title: How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?
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Created On: 02/04/2014 10:07 AM
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 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/04/2014 10:07 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - R. Wilke - 02/04/2014 10:13 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - Alan Cantor - 02/04/2014 10:48 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/04/2014 01:19 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - R. Wilke - 02/04/2014 04:57 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - mdl - 02/05/2014 12:37 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - R. Wilke - 02/05/2014 07:55 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - MDH - 02/05/2014 10:22 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/05/2014 11:32 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - R. Wilke - 02/05/2014 12:36 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/05/2014 05:50 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - R. Wilke - 02/05/2014 06:43 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - R. Wilke - 02/05/2014 07:55 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/06/2014 09:31 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - Stephan Kuepper - 02/07/2014 03:50 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - phils - 02/06/2014 09:57 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/06/2014 11:07 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - phils - 02/06/2014 11:56 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/07/2014 11:32 AM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - phils - 02/07/2014 01:15 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 02/07/2014 06:32 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - Lunis Orcutt - 02/09/2014 02:24 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - TheSound - 05/12/2014 05:40 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - FranckDernoncourt - 05/12/2014 05:51 PM  
 How can I prevent Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizing a word each time after I click?   - TheSound - 05/12/2014 06:38 PM  
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 02/04/2014 10:07 AM
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FranckDernoncou..
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Hi,

 

Each time I click somewhere, Dragon NaturallySpeaking capitalizes the next word I dictate (just the first letter). How can I to avoid that?

 

20-second video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmGDMWuzYyc

 

I use Windows 7 SP1, and this issue only occurs with non-standard applications. I tried with Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional 11.0, 11.5, 12.0 and 12.5, all have this issue.

 

Thanks, 



 02/04/2014 10:13 AM
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R. Wilke
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In non-standard applications, whenever you change the cursor position, Dragon will lose its context awareness which is required to handle capitalization or non-capitalization according to the ITN rules.

There is nothing you can do about it.

Rüdiger


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 02/04/2014 10:48 AM
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Alan Cantor
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There is nothing you can do about it

 

... other than saying "no caps" before you begin dictating.

 02/04/2014 01:19 PM
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FranckDernoncou..
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Thanks. Is there any way to change this default behavior so that whenever Dragon lose its context awareness it does not capitalize? Are all Inverse Text Normalization rules present in the formatting dialog?

 

I don't understand why one of my computer does capitalization, while the other doesn't. Both have the same formatting parameters:

Should I look somewhere else in the settings? Can other applications cause Dragon capitalization?

 

I use dwell clicking so this issue is a tremendous annoyance and I greatly appreciate your ideas.

 

UPDATE: On the "affected" computer, the issue is specific to Google Chrome (even when all extensions are disabled). No issue with Firefox, MSIE and Opera work. No issue with other applications I have tried except MATLAB editor.  

The non-affected computer has the same version of Google Chrome (the latest one: Version 31.0.1650.63 m) and MATLAB (the latest one: R2013b), and is also runnnig Windows 7 SP1 x64 with Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional 12.5.

 



 02/04/2014 04:57 PM
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R. Wilke
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Franck,

there is no way that the user could control this feature. In the old days, it was referred to as Select-and-Say, now it is called Full Text Control. What it refers to is whether or not Dragon is able to "read" the contents (the visible portion) of the currently active text control, and this will depend on the class of the text control. If it is a so-called rich edit control, Select-and-Say will be available, and you will see a green ball on the Dragon bar. If it is not a richt edit control, most of the times Select-and-Say will not be available and you will see a grey ball on the Dragon bar, although sometimes you may have Select-and-Say in such controls also, but this is not reliable.

Dragon being able to "read" the contents of the control makes it context aware, thus knowing whether a word should be capitablized within the given context (at the beginning of a paragraph or after a punctuation sign) or not, and it can do this independently of whether the preceding text has been dictated, typed or even just copied into the control, by updating its internal buffer with the entire contents (visible portion) every time a recogniton starts, thus knowing how to handle the present text and update it according to the new utterance.

If Dragon is not able to "read" the text, in non-standard (non-rich edit) controls, it can only keep track of its last utterance in the buffer, therefore when adding to the buffer, or when moving the cursor out of context, the connection will be lost, and all bets are off as far as full text control.

If you now experience that Dragon will capitalize a word under certain conditions where it used to not capitablize them rather in the past, or if things just happen inconsistently, that's one of the effects of Dragon wild guessing what to do.

Rüdiger



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 02/05/2014 12:37 AM
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mdl
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with an empty utterance buffer, DNS does not capitalize so something else is going on here
 02/05/2014 07:55 AM
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R. Wilke
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Originally posted by: mdl with an empty utterance buffer, DNS does not capitalize so something else is going on here

 

In theory, I agree. However, recently I did some, though only preliminary, investigationg Dragon's behavior in non-standard text boxes, and the best I have come up with so far was to discover that there are various degrees of non-standardness so to speak, and various ways they will be handled by Dragon, and not even consistently in the same application/edit box. So basically everything is possible if you don't have full text control.

 

Rüdiger

 

 



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 02/05/2014 10:22 AM
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MDH
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"recently I did some, though only preliminary, investigationg Dragon's behavior in non-standard text boxes, and the best I have come up with so far was to discover that there are various degrees of non-standardness so to speak, and various ways they will be handled by Dragon, and not even consistently in the same application/edit box. So basically everything is possible if you don't have full text control."

Rudiger,

This is absolutely true in our EMR, Greenway. Some dialog boxes won't take a paste, some do a correction such that choosing an item in the Spell Dialog box results in the correction being next to the wrong transcription rather than replacing it. In other Dialog boxes, it all works perfectly. This is all predictable based on where in the EMR one is.

MDH

 



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 02/05/2014 11:32 AM
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FranckDernoncou..
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This is all predictable based on where in the EMR one is.

 

That is actually why I'm surprised about this issue: since everything works fine on one computer while the other computer has the issue, it seems that Dragon is affected by some other programs or Windows settings. The computer with the issue is quite recent and I installed Windows 7 two months ago so it should be pretty clean though.



 02/05/2014 12:36 PM
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R. Wilke
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That is actually why I'm surprised about this issue: since everything works fine on one computer while the other computer has the issue, it seems that Dragon is affected by some other programs or Windows settings.


This is really weird indeed, but given the monolithic and kind of boring nature of Dragon, and that in such circumstances it tends to be the victim rather than the culprit (note that I am not a company man by any means and I don't get paid for making such statements), I believe it would be impossible to find a solution within Dagon, and moot to point your finger at it. Are you really sure that both systems are equal otherwise?

Rüdiger


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 02/05/2014 05:50 PM
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FranckDernoncou..
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Are you really sure that both systems are equal otherwise? Rüdiger

 

Very similar, I use those two computers so they have most software in common. The two main differences I have in mind are:

 

  • The affected computer has Windows 7 SP1 with updates till December 2013, while the other has updates till July 2013. (but I don't recall to have had the issue right after the installation)
  • The affected computer has VMWare (the other doesn't).

 

 



 02/05/2014 06:43 PM
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R. Wilke
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The two main differences I have in mind are:


.The affected computer has Windows 7 SP1 with updates till December 2013, while the other has updates till July 2013. (but I don't recall to have had the issue right after the installation)


I wouldn't call that particularly equal to start with. What about the frameworks installed, are they different for instance? Remember that applications tend to load resources from the given target machine which is why any program will look a bit different when run on different OS versions. Edit controls are resources for that matter.

For what it is worth, it must be down to your systems somehow. And since you are never going to be a happy camper with non-standard applications I would recommend either resorting to using the dictation box, or stop using such programs altogether, which is my preference.

Rüdiger


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 02/05/2014 07:55 PM
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R. Wilke
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Here is another nice comment on this I found quite a while ago, in quite a different place:

"and users will say, "Harumph, why doesn't this program work with voice recognition? All my other programs do.""

Personally, I find it more likely that they'll say, "Harumph, why doesn't voice recognition work with this program? It works with all my other programs."

The difference being, essentially, where blame gets placed. It might not be MS's fault, but I'm sure that many people will assume it's a deficiency in the voice recognition rather than in the non-accessable program.


http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2006/08/16/702526.aspx#702717  

Keep in mind that discussing whether it was MS's fault was related to how Vista speech recognition fared back in 2006. But that doesn't make the situation different at all.



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 02/06/2014 09:31 PM
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FranckDernoncou..
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And since you are never going to be a happy camper with non-standard applications I would recommend either resorting to using the dictation box, or stop using such programs altogether, which is my preference.


Thanks Rüdiger but the issue is that I need those programs on a daily basis. Using the dictation box every time I want to dictate some words in Google Chrome is very annoying, and it is even less realistic for MATLAB. However, one upside is that it forces me to use it more often as I tend to neglect it.

Today I uninstalled VMWare and Virtual Box, and I killed many processes/services hoping that one of them would be the root of the issue, but it didn't help.

Then, I've made surprising "discovery" : several monitors are connected to my computer. Only the primary monitor is affected by the issue. All the other 5 connected monitors are fine. This 15-second video shows the surprising behavior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZptdwG9-qc (now at this point of weirdness I feel that I need to mention that I do computer science for a living). I confirmed this behavior by dragging the same window around all monitors,  as well as changing the primary monitor.

Have you ever noticed a different behavior on the primary monitor with Dragon NaturallySpeaking? Any more ideas following this new information?



 02/07/2014 03:50 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Originally posted by: FranckDernoncourt Have you ever noticed a different behavior on the primary monitor with Dragon NaturallySpeaking? Any more ideas following this new information?

 

Just to answer this single question: yes I have, and so have others. This has been amply documented on this forum. The obvious workaround is to avoid dictation on the screen(s) where these quirks occur.

Stephan



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 02/06/2014 09:57 PM
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phils
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With 5 monitors I would assume that you have at least two video cards. I am not surprised with quirky DNS behavior on multiple screen systems.

Are the video cards all identical or at least the same company (say nVidia) and same drivers?
If you are using HDMI have you inadvertently enabled HDMI audio over a monitor port?

I had weird behavior with DNS and MSOffice when I added a Wacom Cintiq 24HD touch as a sixth screen. I attribute this to some interaction between the Windows 7 OS input from tablet, touch & hand writing through the Cintiq/Tablet drivers and DNS input to the OS. It took some fiddling with models of graphics cards, moving from two to three graphics cards, hand installing drivers and moving from DVI with primarily Dell panels to HP panels with Display Port.

Even before the Cintiq I found the ATI cards less reliable than the nVidia with multiple 30 inch screens

Just a WAG.

Phil Schaadt

 02/06/2014 11:07 PM
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FranckDernoncou..
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With 5 monitors I would assume that you have at least two video cards.

 

Thanks good to know, but in fact I've just one video card. I use several USB to DVI/HDMI Display Adapters (this model and this model) to plug the monitors. Regardless of how the primary monitor is connected (HDMI/USB/laptop's monitor), only the primary monitor has the issue. Furthermore, the non-affected computer also has several monitors plugged with several USB to DVI/HDMI Display Adapters.



 02/06/2014 11:56 PM
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phils
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Do you still have the problem if all external monitors are disconnected and you only use the laptop standalone (you referred to a laptop)?

Phil Schaadt
 02/07/2014 11:32 AM
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FranckDernoncou..
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Originally posted by: phils Do you still have the problem if all external monitors are disconnected and you only use the laptop standalone (you referred to a laptop)?

 

Good catch:  if all external monitors are disconnected and I only use the laptop standalone, I don't have the issue. I hadn't realized so far as I almost made it use the laptop alone. More generally, the issue appears whenever I extend the desktop on one or several monitors (duplicating only doesn't cause the issue. Having a mixture of extend and duplicate does create the issue too).

 

As a result, I uninstalled all my graphic drivers, namely NVIDIA, Intel and DisplayLink (used for the USB/DVI adapters), but it didn't help.



 02/07/2014 01:15 PM
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phils
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As Stephan said multiple monitors can be a crap shoot.

I looked at the tech specs on your USB video drivers and I'm not really surprised you have strange behavior given that the drivers claim multi-media support across many devices.

I've used the Dell and Toshiba DisplayLink USB monitors and Dragon successfully with half a dozen different laptops and tablets but the monitors themselves are specifically certified and contain the USB to Video technology.

Phil Schaadt

Phil Schaadt
 02/07/2014 06:32 PM
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FranckDernoncou..
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Yes the workaround I use now is setting some far away monitor as the primary monitor, and displaying the task bar on each monitor (with DisplayFusion). I am crossing fingers it won't create side-effects. I hope I could use DisplayFusion at the same time to move windows around monitor through voice commands: I'll try this a bit later.

 

I had already used Dragon NaturallySpeaking with DisplayLink in the past on 2 computers, I never had this capitalization issue.



 02/09/2014 02:24 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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If you're interested in a quick solution, check out KnowBrainer 2012 which supports the ability to move and simultaneously resize a Window to any one of 8 positions. If you decide to check out the 30 day trial version of KnowBrainer 2012 (in our signature tag below this thread), the commands you are looking for are Window Top Half, Window Bottom, Window Middle, Window Top Left, Window Top Right, Window Bottom Right, Window Bottom Left, and Window Maximize.



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 05/12/2014 05:40 PM
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TheSound
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Franck,

 

I just wanted to thank you for your discovery of the monitor issue. 

 

Armed with that info I also found out that if you simply unmaximze the application you're dictating into (just so it's slightly smaller than full screen) then it will do the same thing. Dragon will not capitalize every first word each time you try to dicate into it — even on the Primary monitor!

 

I'm using it in Scrivener and now I can work again just like I used to.  I wasn't about to keep changing my multi-monitor setup to accomodate a stupid bug.

 

Thanks.



 05/12/2014 05:51 PM
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FranckDernoncou..
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Wow thanks a lot, it's pretty amazing but indeed unmaximizing the application indeed does the trick (now I understand why a few times I felt the bug was not present). That's very good to know as DisplayFusion has a bunch of annoying issues beyond being non-free:
- http://www.displayfusion.com/Discussions/View/is-displayfusion-supposed-to-take-almost-half-a-core-of-the-cpu-i7-3rd-gen/?ID=cc838dc7-b682-41fd-b497-2343b3ce40df
- http://www.displayfusion.com/Discussions/View/upside-down-task-bar-on-wake-up/?ID=74c75f1c-680d-4eff-8912-66a7e0ee9cea
- http://www.displayfusion.com/Discussions/View/1-second-to-move-the-window-from-the-primary-monitor-to-the-monitor-where-i-used-the-task-bar-to-launch-it/?ID=0629f426-835b-4dfe-9892-747401a794b4
- and a few more issues I got to lazy to reports (the support is responsive but it takes so long to report bugs and for many of the bugs I feel there is no good solution as they are heavily dependent on Windows so I prefer to report bugs to open source applications or when I'm really annoyed).

FYI for alternatives to DisplayFusion see: http://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/q/1753/903



 05/12/2014 06:38 PM
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TheSound
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Well, Franck, the kudos go to you for finding an initial solution to the bug.

 

I've always avoided 3rd party multimonitor utilities.  I have a 680GTX that has 3 ports (Displayport, HDMI, and DVI) and it works great (I use it to edit in Adobe CC and do audio in Cubase.) So with everything else working fine, I wasn't about to do anything drastic to fix it.

 

Anyhow, I figured if it had something having to do with the Primary monitor I could figure another way around the problem — without reconfiguring everytime I wanted to write with Dragon. Making it float in a window was the solution.

 

Thank you again, Franck, you've really helped me a lot.

 

 



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