KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
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Topic Title: Dragon 11 Canadian English?
Topic Summary: Can it be?
Created On: 08/23/2010 06:50 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - dkehler - 08/23/2010 06:50 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Chucker - 08/23/2010 07:02 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - dkehler - 08/25/2010 09:45 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - GDS - 08/23/2010 07:10 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - dkehler - 08/23/2010 08:17 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 08/23/2010 07:24 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Zig - 08/23/2010 08:20 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - GDS - 08/23/2010 08:51 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Zig - 08/24/2010 01:45 AM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 08/24/2010 09:20 AM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - dkehler - 08/24/2010 02:17 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - GDS - 08/24/2010 02:33 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - edmart - 08/24/2010 02:57 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 09/09/2019 06:39 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 10/20/2019 05:53 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Lunis Orcutt - 10/20/2019 07:12 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Tomc - 07/13/2021 05:24 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 09/09/2019 08:16 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 09/10/2019 06:47 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Lunis Orcutt - 09/10/2019 10:19 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 09/11/2019 01:51 AM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 09/11/2019 10:30 AM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 09/12/2019 05:18 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 09/18/2019 05:55 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - tsupport - 07/12/2021 12:02 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 07/12/2021 01:46 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - tsupport - 07/12/2021 02:30 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 07/12/2021 02:55 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Alan Cantor - 07/12/2021 02:57 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Zig - 07/12/2021 08:39 PM  
 Dragon 11 Canadian English?   - Ag - 07/13/2021 12:26 PM  
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 08/23/2010 06:50 PM
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dkehler
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In perusing the KnowBrainer 2010 manual (while eagerly awaiting my Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11 Premium shipment), I noticed that during the new user set up, apparently there is now an option to select your region, followed by your accent, if any.  Does this mean that Dragon finally has a Canadian English spelling dictionary/option?  If so, that is HUGE to me and worth the price of upgrade alone.

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David
 08/23/2010 07:02 PM
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Chucker
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David,

Yes, DNS 11 does have a new region selection for Canada.  What this contains or how it impacts on creating a user profile that is unique to you is up for grabs.  The only way that you will know for sure is after you get your copy and install.  However, be sure you read the instructions for creating a new user carefully, albeit it that it is a much better designed interface.

Chuck Runquist
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VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower® Ultimate

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The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect those of VoiceTeach LLC.

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 08/25/2010 09:45 PM
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dkehler
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So it turns out that unfortunately, the Canada region selection does not include a Canadian spelling dictionary. :-(


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David
 08/23/2010 07:10 PM
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GDS
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Funny, that. I grew up near the Canadian border and Dragon's "US English" always understood my pronunciation of "Sorry."

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Eric Wright


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 08/23/2010 08:17 PM
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dkehler
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As Alan says, it's not the pronunciation, it's the spelling of certain words.  And since I do court transcription, the words need to be spelled correctly, and there are quite a few of them that are spelled differently in Canada.  Alan mentioned some of them, but it was always a chore to create alternative spellings for words when creating a new user.  So I hope the new "Canadian region" does what I think it does (uses a Canadian English spelling dictionary).


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David
 08/23/2010 07:24 PM
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Alan Cantor
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Canadian spelling is a mixed bag, a blend of British and American influences. Our sentences definitely end in a "period" and not a "full-stop." We retain the British "u" in words like "colour" and "labour," but allow the American "z" in words like "organize" and "realize."

There are folks who insist that the "s" is preferable in words like "organise" and "realise," and in fact, I adhered to this rule for almost a decade before returning the comfort of the zed -- never the zee! -- in words that end in "ize."

I have no empirical data to back this up, but my sense is that for most (English-speaking) Canadians, the "u" rule is stronger than the "z" rule!

 08/23/2010 08:20 PM
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Zig
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But, in Canada, are groups collectives or new entities?  BP IS responsible for the oil spill vs. BP ARE responsible...??

 

Zig

 08/23/2010 08:51 PM
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GDS
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Zig,

I have no empirical data that suggests DNS 9 or 10 perform any better when using proper grammar. I can tell you Dragon is just fine with this former English major butchering his grammar on a regular basis. After all, Dragon just transcribes what they hear - with a little assist from mathematical models :-)

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Eric Wright


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 08/24/2010 01:45 AM
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Zig
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Eric

     No, no; I was just asking what the common usage was in BNA, not what DNS would do with it.

Zig

 08/24/2010 09:20 AM
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Alan Cantor
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To avoid the need to modify word properties, I have, over the years, developed a list of words with Canadian spellings with one or two alternative pronunciations for each word.

When I create a new user, I import the list, and I have instant access to Canadian spellings. Here is an excerpt:

behaviour\behavior with a U.
behaviours\behaviors with a U.
centre\center with an E.
centres\centers with an E. 
cheque\check with a Q.
cheque\check with a U.
cheques\checks with a Q.
cheques\checks with a U.
colour\color with a U.
coloured\colored with a U.
litre\liter with an E.
litres\liters with an E.

To dictate, "the colourful cheque is in the mail," I say, "the colorful with a U. check with a Q. (or check with a U.) is in the mail."

This pronunciation convention may not be intuitive for everybody, but it works for me. I introduced it to one of my clients, a long time NaturallySpeaking aficionado who works as a journalist, and she took to it right away. 

 08/24/2010 02:17 PM
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dkehler
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That's not a bad idea, although it would take a bit of getting used to.  I hope that Dragon 11 eliminates the need for such workarounds, though.  It seems to me that it would not be that difficult of a feature to implement.

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David
 08/24/2010 02:33 PM
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GDS
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I'm not really sure what the etiquette and protocol is for featuring the work of other speech recognition consultants on this forum, but Alan's technique is one I use and one he's written about for dictating proper names. It helps when I'm dealing with those "Eric with a K" kinds.

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Eric Wright


DPI 15.3. 

 08/24/2010 02:57 PM
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edmart
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I see the workround, Alan, and congratulate you on all your hard work - but I am tempted to suggest the alternative of using the UK version and changing your accent instead: might be easier! 

Whilst thinking US/UK, does anyone have a way of preventing Word from attaching US spelling to anything you import into your PC, regardless of the fact that you have UK spelling firmly selected within Word? It's been annoying me for ever, and although (like most serious annoyances...) it is ludicrously unimportant, I'd love it if someone knew how to trick Bloody Bill on this one.

Ed 



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DNS 12.5 Pro, Windows 7 Professional, SP1, i7-2700K 3.50 Ghz Sandybridge, 16Gb DDR3 PC3-160000C9 2000Mhz dual channel RAM, SpeechMike 5276 and Samson Airline 77

 09/09/2019 06:39 PM
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Ag
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Old thread, but I thought I might ask: has the state of Canadian English in Dragon changed substantially since this thread in 2010?

 

Note: it's not my Canadian accent that is a problem. In fact I probably lost much of it in 30 plus years in the United States. Except when I go on vacation to Canada and then come back home when I speak with a Canadian accent for a few weeks.


The problem is the spelling.

 

I sure would like it if I could switch from Canadian mode for personal correspondence to American mode for work. Switching user profiles is a little bit too heavyweight for this. I can export/import vocabulary words and commands, but as I have mentioned elsewhere I can only export/import custom vocabulary words, not an indication of what words I have disabled.

 

But as I understand it, Dragon has no notion of a single user who uses 2 different spelling dictionaries at different times.

 

 

(Grumble: Dragon is not letting me create a new user profile with anything other than the Canadian region.  I may regret saying "Canadian" during my initial install. If I am lucky there is a way around this in all of the scads of poorly written help and poorly recorded videos.  If I am slightly less lucky, I may be able to uninstall and reinstall with the US region.  If I am really unlucky, I may be restricted to only one region by the Dragon license, and not allowed to change region.  I suppose that I could go through the vocabulary, changing all of "labour" to "labor", and so on, so as not to annoy my US coworkers. Yeah, yeah, "labour with a u" vs "labor with no u"...)



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 10/20/2019 05:53 PM
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Ag
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My initial intallation was with Region_Selection=Canada. My American company's spell checkers complained about words like "colour".  To my surprise, there was not the option to change to American spellings.

 

This weekend I reinstalled with Region_Selection="All English regions". I now have set up separate Canadian and American profiles. 

 

I suspect I will live mainly in the American profiles. Keeping commands and vocabulary in synch is possible, but is nevertheless a hassle.

 

Obviously, I just transferred everything I could from my Canadian profile to my American profile - commands and new vocabulary. I used both the XML and .TXT vocabulary file formats.  But AFAICT this transferred only added words - not words that I had deleted.

 

(Some folks say that they talk about different things in native dialect and work - but I talk technology in both.)

 

Now, is there a way that I can get the ability to dictate in French, both International and Quebecois, as well as English Canadian/American? ... Perhaps next time I upgrade Dragon.



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DPG15.6 (also DPI 15.3) + KB, Sennheiser MB Pro 1 UC ML, BTD 800 dongle, Windows 10 Pro, MS Surface Book 3, Intel Core i7-1065G7 CPU @ 1.3/1.5GHz (4 cores, 8 logical, GPU=NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 with Max-Q Design.



 10/20/2019 07:12 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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There is only one version of French and it is not the Canadian version. There simply isn't enough profit for Nuance to make a Québec version. You will also have to purchase the full version of DPI 15 French in order to obtain English and French but Nuance does not permit upgrades. Nuance has also informed us that they will not be releasing upgrades in any language other than English. Of course this may only apply to American resellers.



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 07/13/2021 05:24 PM
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Tomc
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I say, "the colorful with a U. check with a Q. (or check with a U.) is in the mail."

 

Shouldn't that be "the colorful with a U check with a Q is in the mail, eh"

 09/09/2019 08:16 PM
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Alan Cantor
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I think the best option is to create two different profiles, one for Canadian English and the other for American English. Creating a new profile takes five minutes, and switching from one profile to another is a minor, 30 second, chore.

Version 15 handles regional differences with aplomb, much better than in the past. It has been several years since I needed to resort to tricks like "labor with a U" since Nuance introduced "Canadian English" as a supported language.

It's curious trying to sort out what constitutes Canadian spellings (which is best understood as a hybrid between American and British spellings.) Personally, I spell "colour" with a U. But spelling "organize" with an "S" just looks wrong... at least to me!
 09/10/2019 06:47 PM
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Ag
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@AlanCantor:

@Ag: my new stuff in silvery grey. (Get it?)

I think the best option is to create two different profiles, one for Canadian English and the other for American English. ... and switching from one profile to another is a minor, 30 second, chore.

:-( You're probably right.  No sending a quick email to family while at work.  (2x30s is too slow for "quick")


Creating a new profile takes five minutes,

 

  • ... when I figure out how to get Dragon to let me change from my original "region: Canada" to "region: US".
  • Yeah, it won't allow me to create a new profile with a different region.   I'll defer to the weekend.

It's curious trying to sort out what constitutes Canadian spellings (which is best understood as a hybrid between American and British spellings.) Personally, I spell "colour" with a U. But spelling "organize" with an "S" just looks wrong... at least to me!

You are also Canadian?  I am guessing BC..

 



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 09/10/2019 10:19 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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The previously recommended Plan A is admittedly more bulletproof than our Plan B but having to maintain 2 separate profiles, by copying commands and vocabularies back and forth, can be a headache. Before committing to Plan A, consider creating separate American and Canadian vocabularies, with your existing profile and see how it works 1st.



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 09/11/2019 01:51 AM
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Ag
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@Lunis: that's a good idea, that I had not thought of: instead of two profiles Canada/US, have one profile but switch vocabularies Canada/US.  Where the vocabularies differ not in what words are being spoken, but in the written or printed forms. 

 

 

Of course, I will need to create custom spellings for many of the words that are in the standard vocabulary with a spelling that is different Canada/US. And disable the opposite US/Canada vocabulary entries, or otherwise try to ensure that the words I want to use take priority over what is already in the proprietary base vocabulary.  Seems to me we were just talking about this. :-(

 

 

I think that I am just going to surrender and switch to US.  If Dragon lets me. And if not, just continue correcting the Canadian spellings as they appear.   Switching profiles and vocabularies looks like it will be a time sink. Not in the switching, but in having to train the same pronunciation in two different systems.

 

 

---

 

 

Y'know, those Open Source speech recognition systems are beginning to look much better. But if Dragon has so far been a time sink, FOSS will be even more of a time sink.  Although at least the world benefits more from open source.  Guiltily, I upload two more samples to VoxForge.org.



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 09/11/2019 10:30 AM
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Alan Cantor
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Not in the switching, but in having to train the same pronunciation in two different systems.


I wouldn't expect you will have to train anything.

If you want to stick with a single profile, here is a partial list of words with Canadian spellings with matching alternative pronunciations, e.g., "color with a U" and "check with a Q."

Save the following in a plain text file. Delete lines you don't need, and add new words that you might use. Then import the file into your US profile. You probably won't need to train anything.

@Version=Plato
behaviour\\behavior with a U
behaviours\\behaviors with a U
centre\\center with an E
centres\\centers with an E
cheque\\check with a Q
cheque\\check with a U
cheques\\checks with a Q
cheques\\checks with a U
colour\\color with a U
coloured\\colored with a U
colourful\\colorful with a U
colourfully\\colorfully with a U
colours\\colors with a U
favour\\favor with a U
favourable\\favorable with a U
favourite\\favorite with a U
favourites\\favorites with a U
favours\\favors with a U
flavour\\flavor with a U
flavourful\\flavorful with a U
flavours\\flavors with a U
honour\\honor with a U
honourable\\honorable with a U
honours\\honors with a U
humour\\humor with a U
humours\\humors with a U
labour\\labor with a U
laboured\\labored with a U
labourer\\laborer with a U
labourers\\laborers with a U
labouring\\laboring with a U
labours\\labors with a U
litre\\liter with an E
litres\\liters with an E
metre\\meter with an E
metres\\meters with an E
neighbour\\neighbor with a U
neighbourhood\\neighborhood with a U
neighbourhoods\\neighborhoods with a U
neighbourly\\neighborly with a U
neighbours\\neighbors with a U
parlour\\parlor with a U
parlours\\parlors with a U
rigour\\rigor with a U
rigours\\rigors with a U
rumour\\rumor with a U
rumours\\rumors with a U
theatre\\theater with an E
theatres\\theaters with an E
valour\\valor with a U
vapour\\vapor with a U
vapours\\vapors with a U
vigorous\\vigourous with a U
vigorously\\vigourously with a U
vigour\\vigor with a U
vigours\\vigors with a U



 09/12/2019 05:18 PM
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Ag
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Thanks Alan. Interestingly I mainly only preferred the "...our" spellings.

 

 

I dislike "theatre" and "cheque" and "centre", etc. Perhaps because I am from Québec, and use the French pronunciation for words like "theatre", and the English for "theater".

 

 

I also dislike the spellings of the units "metre" and "litre", but I will grudgingly accept those since they are international standards. And IMHO examples of Francophone cultural imperialism.

 

 

I am fairly sure that I held these opinions growing up in Québec many years ago, and that they are not just an artifact of having lived in the United States for quite a few years.

 



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 09/18/2019 05:55 PM
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Ag
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More words where Dragon's Candian spellings were surprising to this Canadian.

 

 

It almost seems to me that they did a wholesale copy from UK English.

 

 

dialogue / dialog

enrollment / enrolment

 

 

 

 



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 07/12/2021 12:02 PM
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tsupport
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I am resurrecting this old topic although I'm using Dragon Medical Practice 4.

I have used the vocabulary editor to choose the Canadian spelling for several common words (eg. tumour vs tumor) for my profile. I have exported these using the "Export words with customized properties", however I cannot figure out how to import these into a new profile. The "import list of words or phrases" does not change the default spelling in the new profile.

Is this possible?
 07/12/2021 01:46 PM
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Alan Cantor
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It's been a while since I last saw DMP, so I hope that my suggestion will help:

Try creating an entirely new profile, specifying "Canada" as the region. Before importing your custom words, test the profile, and see what happens when you say sentences that contain words like "labour" and "colour" and "neighbourhood" and "vigour."

 

If you're getting the correct spelling, open the file that contains your custom words, review them all, and delete any that you don't need to import. Save the file, and then import it into the new profile.



 07/12/2021 02:30 PM
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tsupport
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Thanks, I did try that however when I specify the region Canada a note pops up beside it stating, "Canada uses the United states Vocabulary. Example: 'neighbor' not 'neighbour'". So I am not really sure what specifying this region actually does.

All of the Canadian spelling words are already present in the vocabulary but for each incorrectly spelled word I need to state quote "spell that" and then choose the alternate printed form. after I do that a capital P appears beside the original spelling of the word in the vocabulary editor.
 07/12/2021 02:55 PM
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Alan Cantor
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It's too bad that the medical version hasn't kept up with the "civilian" versions!

The expedient solution for you may be to use the technique that many of us who live north of the 49th parallel were forced to adapt in years of yore.

Since correcting the "incorrect" American spelling is neither efficient nor especially effective, consider adding a bunch of custom words to the vocabulary:

colour\color with a U
colours\colors with a U
colourful\colorful with a U
labour\labor with a U
organise\organize with an S

Etc.

It might take you an hour or so to produce a list of words with Canadian spelling. You will likely discover a need to tweak the list occasionally as you discover more words that you use. But once you've got the list, it's gold. I used this approach for years, and I found it easy to remember, easy to get used to, and very reliable.
 07/12/2021 02:57 PM
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Alan Cantor
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Here's a list of words with Canadian spellings that I compiled a few years ago. Feel free to add "tumour" related words!

@Version=Plato
behaviour\\behavior with a U
behaviours\\behaviors with a U
centre\\center with an E
centres\\centers with an E
cheque\\check with a Q
cheque\\check with a U
cheques\\checks with a Q
cheques\\checks with a U
colour\\color with a U
coloured\\colored with a U
colourful\\colorful with a U
colourfully\\colorfully with a U
colours\\colors with a U
favour\\favor with a U
favourable\\favorable with a U
favourite\\favorite with a U
favourites\\favorites with a U
favours\\favors with a U
flavour\\flavor with a U
flavourful\\flavorful with a U
flavours\\flavors with a U
honour\\honor with a U
honourable\\honorable with a U
honours\\honors with a U
humour\\humor with a U
humours\\humors with a U
labour\\labor with a U
laboured\\labored with a U
labourer\\laborer with a U
labourers\\laborers with a U
labouring\\laboring with a U
labours\\labors with a U
litre\\liter with an E
litres\\liters with an E
metre\\meter with an E
metres\\meters with an E
neighbour\\neighbor with a U
neighbourhood\\neighborhood with a U
neighbourhoods\\neighborhoods with a U
neighbourly\\neighborly with a U
neighbours\\neighbors with a U
parlour\\parlor with a U
parlours\\parlors with a U
rigour\\rigor with a U
rigours\\rigors with a U
rumour\\rumor with a U
rumours\\rumors with a U
theatre\\theater with an E
theatres\\theaters with an E
valour\\valor with a U
vapour\\vapor with a U
vapours\\vapors with a U
vigorous\\vigourous with a U
vigorously\\vigourously with a U
vigour\\vigor with a U
vigours\\vigors with a U
 07/12/2021 08:39 PM
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Zig
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"So I am not really sure what specifying this region actually does. "

It automatically appends "-eh?" to the end of each sentence
Zig
 07/13/2021 12:26 PM
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Ag
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Posts: 636
Joined: 07/08/2019

WISH: speech vocabulary / custom words (in Dragon) and spellcheck dictionaries (in Word, etc) synchronized

I suppose I could export my Dragon custom words, delete the spoken forms,  and merge those into any spellcheck dictionaries (word, emacs, ...)

 and vice versa, when a word is in spellcheck that is not in Dragon

 

a)  add it to Dragon without a spoken form

b)  ask user they want to provide a spoken form

 

 both of these would probably need to check if the word already exists in the target, or if the alternate spelling, e.g. American/Canadian/British already exists in the target

 

 

 



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KnowBrainer Speech Recognition » Dragon Speech Recognition » Dragon 11 Canadian English?

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