KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
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Topic Title: KnowBrainer randomly crashing
Topic Summary: KnowBrainer commands randomly stop working at times
Created On: 02/20/2022 04:06 AM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Ghost - 02/20/2022 04:06 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 02/20/2022 12:50 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Ghost - 02/25/2022 11:00 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 02/26/2022 12:47 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 02/20/2022 08:50 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 02/21/2022 12:51 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/10/2022 10:06 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - R. Wilke - 02/21/2022 01:15 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/10/2022 10:15 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - monkey8 - 04/13/2022 07:54 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/13/2022 05:59 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/13/2022 12:00 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/13/2022 07:23 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - monkey8 - 04/14/2022 06:47 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/23/2022 05:35 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/13/2022 11:08 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/14/2022 01:25 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/23/2022 06:09 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/27/2022 10:04 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/27/2022 10:30 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 04/29/2022 11:10 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/29/2022 01:23 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 05/07/2022 09:10 AM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/07/2022 01:33 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Twisted_Code - 05/10/2022 06:00 PM  
 KnowBrainer randomly crashing   - Lunis Orcutt - 05/10/2022 08:36 PM  
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 02/20/2022 04:06 AM
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Ghost
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Every now and then, probably 10 times a day at least, KnowBrainer commands stop working. I will be dictating something and randomly say backspace#. Or the Google Chrome extension that I use a lot where I can say mouse click# to click on stuff on different webpages. KnowBrainer commands just stop working.

 

All I have to do to fix it is to say show sidebar, and then I say go up or go down. Usually it will appear to be showing a command I attempted a few commands ago, maybe the last one that worked, I'm not sure. But when I say go up or go down, it will show the command as being selected, Whereas normally when I opened the sidebar, it already shows the last command used as being selected. Then I will say go up or go down again. Then I will say press enter, and it opens the command, and I close the window for the command. Then I just say hide sidebar, and it will freeze for a few seconds, and then the sidebar disappears, and KnowBrainer commands start working again. Can't explain why I tried this, but I thought it might work.

 

It's somewhat of an inconvenience rather than a critical problem, but it interferes with my workflow so badly, and I don't understand why it happens. I just waste a lot of time between the commands failing, realizing what is happening, and having to address it.



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Forrest Phillips
 02/20/2022 12:50 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We cannot replicate this problem but note that the Google Chrome Dragon extension is not 100%. You'll find better compatibility in Microsoft Edge and even more improvements when Dragon 16 is released. Dragon will be more focused on Microsoft products in the future.

We recommend trying the same KnowBrainer commands in other applications so that we can verify this problem. We additionally recommend leaving the KnowBrainer Sidebar open for visual confirmations. This will help you identify problems. When you are certain, you can say High Sidebar



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 02/25/2022 11:00 PM
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Ghost
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I don't even use the extension. I use messenger a lot, and I can't figure out how to send a message on messenger when the extension is on.

 

I will say that it recently came to my attention that I am using Dragon home and that this is not supported by KnowBrainer. So I now feel reluctant to bother troubleshooting problems which could just be a result of the software I am using.

 

Sorry for the late reply. I've been dealing with health issues.



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Forrest Phillips
 02/26/2022 12:47 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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KnowBrainer 2020 fully supports the Dragon Home Edition.

 

When you say “I don't even use the extension” are you referring to the Dragon extension in Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge or Firefox? If so, just say your KnowBrainer Extensions command to open your browser extensions. You can then disable the Dragon extension



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 02/20/2022 08:50 PM
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Twisted_Code
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not sure if it's related, but I'm having issues where KnowBrainer commands stop working after closing and reopening my Dragon profile. It started happening within the past week, and is happening consistently... Does anything like that happen for you, Ghost?
(I was about to start a new thread for this issue when I saw this one right at the top. I may as well see if it's related first)

 

edit: okay it's not happening COMPLETELY consistently. For instance, "delete " doesn't work but "undo" does

edit: my issue seems to occur with commands that involve substituting a list (other than <dictation>, which works fine)



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


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 02/21/2022 12:51 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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KnowBrainer 2017/2020 is linked to Dragon. If you don't close KnowBrainer when closing Dragon, it cannot function because it is no longer linked. This is why we included the Close Dragon and KnowBrainer command. When using the manual approach, you should close KnowBrainer 1st.



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 04/10/2022 10:06 AM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt KnowBrainer 2017/2020 is linked to Dragon. If you don't close KnowBrainer when closing Dragon, it cannot function because it is no longer linked. This is why we included the Close Dragon and KnowBrainer command. When using the manual approach, you should close KnowBrainer 1st.

 

 

I'm aware of that, but I didn't completely close Dragon. I only closed the profile, then reopened the same profile. The link should still be valid between the processes, unless it's actually linked to the profile/session somehow

 

 



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


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 02/21/2022 01:15 PM
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R. Wilke
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Twisted Code,

You seem to have a lot of troubles, posting a message, editing it, and then editing it again, kind of reversely all the time, and by doing so, letting us feel your pain. Rest assured that I can feel it, too, and that I will be looking into resolving it sometime in the future.



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 04/10/2022 10:15 AM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: R. Wilke Twisted Code, You seem to have a lot of troubles, posting a message, editing it, and then editing it again, kind of reversely all the time, and by doing so, letting us feel your pain. Rest assured that I can feel it, too, and that I will be looking into resolving it sometime in the future.

 

I appreciate the sympathy. The application is great when it works (if you can understand the arcane WWB syntax, at least. I tend to avoid it by shellExecuting external scripts, personally), but the number of times I've had to "turn it off and back on again" or do other "hacks" to work around something seems to have increased lately. Hopefully you can make the next major version more robust, but if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.



speaking of edits, I had to split this off of the other reply I just posted (otherwise I would've combined them) because FuseTalk does that unconventional (but not necessarily wrong. I'm just not used to it) thing where forum topics are organized as trees instead of threads and ordered depth first. I could see the Tree topics thing working, but I'm used to posts appearing in strictly chronological order relative when they are posted, rather than what seems to be a depth first tree.

 



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes

 04/13/2022 07:54 AM
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monkey8
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Originally posted by: Twisted_Code  The application is great when it works (if you can understand the arcane WWB syntax,

 

When I was asked to do KnowBrainer in 2014, or thereabouts, the existing version was limited to pure DVC scripting. I took up the offer because I strongly supported what Lunis did (and still does) in terms of giving the application free to disabled users and I contributed my time at minimal cost.

 

What I did at the time was added WinWrap Basic with lots of additions and extensions (a lot of development work) and included not only COM library access (like Advanced Scripting) but also .NET library access and scripting as well as leaving the option for DVC scripting. Reasons for WinWrap include that execution of scripts was much faster than Dragon Advanced scripting/SAX Basic (and still is even after Dragon added WinWrap Basic) and it opened up the world of .NET scripting. Furthermore, you can simply "Shell" executables as you have mentioned so it is a very flexible scripting option.

 

Now you can have whatever opinion you like about WinWrap Basic & .NET scripting but it is far from "arcane" and more or less compatible with VBScript, VBA and other VB-based scripting languages and relatively "simple" to understand the language. In other words the exact opposite of arcane and compatible with scripting languages used by millions worldwide. If it doesn’t suit you (VB) then why don’t you use NatLink with its rich variation of options including Vocola, dragonfly, python… 

 

I am sorry to hear you are having issues with lock-ups but it's not something I see when I run the last version that I was involved before I decided to quit developing KB for various reasons last year. Remedies I would suggest include limiting the number of commands, start from scratch with no commands and just add the commands that you need with "Import Commands". If you want to know how to do this then contact me off forum at support@pcbyvoice.com, I will do what I can to help you. I am not responsible for the commands that KB contains other, than a few keybd_event & mouse_event and a few other commands lunis asked me to write for him, as that is Lunis's department. Please also consider using the hardcoded command I included with KB called "Close Dragon and KnowBrainer" to keep the products in sync.

 

Edit: I should also add that I added the sidebar concept to allow users to see which commands were available for which applications/window as a common problem with many users was remembering the names of commands when there are so many.

 

 



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 04/13/2022 05:59 PM
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Twisted_Code
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I did not mean to dismiss the scripting engine so curtly. In all honesty I'm just not familiar with or comfortable with BASIC, and the first time I tried exploring the scripting help documentation you have it was not very "beginner friendly" (double checking now, it looks like significant improvements have been made to the documentation, though it could probably still use some work). Besides that, my "arcane" remark was more targeted at the specific issue/thread I linked of "how can I ShellExecute something with spaces in its path". Even one of this site's top tier members couldn't help. Though it's also possible that was a bug with KBPro 2017 (I'm now using 2020); I haven't tried again since

 

Which part of my message are you referring to when you say "locking up"? I'm not sure locking up is quite the right word for it. It's more like, under some circumstances (EX: when changing dictation sources or otherwise reloading the user profile), commands like "backspace <number>" will stop working. It doesn't seem to affect all commands, rather primarily affecting those with some form of variable in the name. If you would like, I can try to describe more specific reproduction steps.



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes

 04/13/2022 12:00 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Twisted,

The default setting on this forum is Linear (Chronicle), which we also prefer. You'll see the Linear option at the top of every forum page



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 04/13/2022 07:23 PM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt Twisted, The default setting on this forum is Linear (Chronicle), which we also prefer. You'll see the Linear option at the top of every forum page

 

Thank you, I do not remember setting that to threading, so confused that you say it's the default, but perhaps it is set when a user account is created and the default had changed? IDK, but it's fixed now.

edit: or not. Every time I POST, I'm returned to a page displayed in threading mode. It seems like the display mode is controlled by a URL variable, which is not persisting across all actions. RESTful only works if you remember to transfer the state in all requests...



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes



 04/14/2022 06:47 AM
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monkey8
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TC,

 

No problem and understood. Would be happy to show you resolutions for executable with spaces & look at other issues if you contact support@pcbyvoice.com



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 04/23/2022 05:35 PM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: monkey8 TC,

 

 

 

No problem and understood. Would be happy to show you resolutions for executable with spaces & look at other issues if you contact support@pcbyvoice.com

 

 

I mean, sure, maybe sometime, but part of the reason I'm on the forums is I am one of those complementary licensees you alluded to in your first message. I don't want to take up your email support time if I don't have to. Or, in the case of the scripting difficulty, if I've barely put any effort into solving the problems myself lately. Things I have on my to-do list to try:

 1. As I said, it looks like the built-in documentation has been improved considerably since last time I checked it. I might just need to give it another shot sometime. Though I might need to introduce myself to some underlying concepts from the Basic family of languages before I do anything fancy. (I'm a basic programmer not a BASIC programmer)

 2. For the issue with shell-executing when there are spaces: I mentioned that I only tried the previous solution with KBPro 2017 and that it might have been a 2017-specific technicality that prevented the solution from working. So I should give it a try with 2020. Even if nothing else with the scripting interface worked, just being able to shell-execute another process and pass all arguments through that pipeline would be fine, at least for any use case that doesn't involve interacting with Dragon's engine.

All that said, if you would still rather I contact you at least about the issue with the application disconnecting from Dragon just from reloading the profile... yeah that's probably something I won't be able to demonstrate over the forum unless I record it or something.



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes



 04/13/2022 11:08 PM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt Twisted, The default setting on this forum is Linear (Chronicle), which we also prefer. You'll see the Linear option at the top of every forum page

 

that doesn't seem to be working. I'm testing with this post (hence the double post), but it seems like the every time I post it goes back to threaded.



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes

 04/14/2022 01:25 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Twisted,

 

Have you tried using another browser just for test purposes?



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 04/23/2022 06:09 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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KnowBrainer 2017 is 6 years out of date and can no longer be updated. KnowBrainer 2020 is not just 6 years newer, it's also considerably leaner. All free KnowBrainer support, for complementary licenses, need to be conducted here. We can only offer complimentary support to our customers. You will find other support options on our site but again, lets focus on KnowBrainer 2020. KnowBrainer 2017, like DPI 14 and the Commodore 64, are extinct.



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 04/27/2022 10:04 AM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt KnowBrainer 2017 is 6 years out of date and can no longer be updated. KnowBrainer 2020 is not just 6 years newer, it's also considerably leaner.

*3 years, unless you count the time after release by a different standard than the time after 2017's release. Anyway, I get what you're trying to say

All free KnowBrainer support, for complementary licenses, need to be conducted here. We can only offer complimentary support to our customers.

hence what I was saying about not wanting to take up your email support time. I understand that, which is why I'm here trying to figure this out over the forum. I don't feel like anyone is understanding my problem despite my best effort to explain it

like DPI 14 and the Commodore 64, are extinct.

I only mentioned 2017 because I wanted to compare the number of bugs I was encountering. It seemed like it went up rather than down, at least in terms of user-facing bugs for me. Nonetheless, I understand what you're trying to say, and will likely use a similar analogy in the future if I ever have to explain backward-support to someone.

Anyway, let me try to explain my current issue again.

Expected behavior: KBPro should stay connected, with full command support, to Dragon so long as both processes are alive

Actual behavior: under some circumstances, KB Pro stops working for some commands as if it's not connected. For instance, as I type this, I cannot say "back 3" or it will be interpreted as dictation, but I can say "backspace". Might be to do with the variable part of the command name?

Reproduction steps: this is the part I have difficulty explaining, partly because I don't always notice the issue until I try to do one of the affected commands, and partly because I think there are multiple causes. Here's one of them that definitely seems to trigger the problem:

1. Disable the device that Dragon currently has as its dictation source, forcing the dictation sources dialogue to show up

2. Reenable the device

3. Click on the newly re-enabled device and click "select"

4. Dragon will do its thing, and when it finishes, the bug occurs.

 

This is not the only bug I've been experiencing lately, but it's the most consistently reproducible and one of the 2 most disruptive of them.



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes

 04/27/2022 10:30 AM
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Lunis Orcutt
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You received a complimentary copy of KnowBrainer 2020 last December. Can you install it and then source your current problems? Also note that KnowBrainer 2020 cannot function if Dragon has been closed and reopened without closing and reopening KnowBrainer.

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 04/29/2022 11:10 AM
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Twisted_Code
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Originally posted by: Lunis Orcutt You received a complimentary copy of KnowBrainer 2020 last December. Can you install it and then source your current problems? Also note that KnowBrainer 2020 cannot function if Dragon has been closed and reopened without closing and reopening KnowBrainer.

(As I tried to make clear earlier, though I don't blame you for double checking) that is the version I am already running when I experience this issue. I am already running KB Pro 2020, version 5.20.000. Dragon, by the way, is DPI 15, version 15.00.000.076.

I know it doesn't work if Dragon is completely closed and reopened (though I think making it automatically recover would be a really nice feature for you to consider, if it's feasible). However, in my case, I don't even have to fully close the profile, much less natspeak.exe

It seems to occur when changing dictation sources, reloading a dictation source, or reloading the Dragon's profile, for any of the many possible reasons (not least of which, Dragon bugs) you might do that.



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes

 04/29/2022 01:23 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Dragon 15.0 was never ready for prime time. It took Nuance 15 months to release the Ver. 15.3 patch but we are using Ver. 15.61 now, which still needs a bit of work. DPI 15.0 simply wasn't ready for prime time and felt more like beta. We suspect this is your problem. Of course there has been a lot of Windows 10/11 patches over the last 6 years so we imagine Ver. 15.0 is even worse.

 

You might consider our KnowBrainer Dragon Installation/Training Guide



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 05/07/2022 09:10 AM
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Twisted_Code
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how do I get the patch? had I known there was a newer version I'd have been using that this whole time. That's why I said version numbers early on (or at least, I had thought I did. Maybe I mentioned them in another thread? I know I at least have my DPI version in my forum profile) when I started trying to troubleshoot this ... to make sure I was on the same page as everyone else



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes



 05/07/2022 01:33 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We gave you the answer in our previous post. Click this link KnowBrainer Dragon Installation/Training Guide



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 05/10/2022 06:00 PM
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Twisted_Code
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>.> If I hadn't already bought this (I did buy this didn't I?), I'd be more than a little irritated at being directed to it in place of a direct answer.

At least, considering the goal here is (or, at least, I thought it was) to get me on the same version that everyone else is using and troubleshoot the problem, not make a big deal out of who owns what information.



-------------------------

“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ~ Linus Torvalds


 


"It is good to have empathy.  But it is not essential.  What is essential is that one displays empathy, however one musters it." ~ ax (in a post on this very forums)


 


more favorite quotes



 05/10/2022 08:36 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Our apologies but the only way we can find out who you are is to look up your real name in your member profile and then compare it to our records. This would make a lot of extra work for us.

You are quite right. You already own a forever download. In case you lost your previous forever email, we just sent you another



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