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Topic Title: Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor
Topic Summary: Or more particularly, SciTE4AutoHotkey
Created On: 03/03/2016 07:18 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - PG LTU - 03/03/2016 07:18 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - PG LTU - 03/04/2016 12:27 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Derek Morin - 09/19/2016 09:08 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Derek Morin - 09/19/2016 09:16 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - nohatsnotrainers - 11/20/2017 10:47 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Lunis Orcutt - 11/20/2017 02:30 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - nohatsnotrainers - 11/22/2017 05:24 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - alexander - 04/21/2021 11:51 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - David.P - 03/28/2017 12:08 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - PG LTU - 03/28/2017 06:44 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Jole - 03/28/2017 07:37 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - PG LTU - 03/28/2017 08:31 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/28/2017 10:09 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - PG LTU - 03/01/2018 11:21 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Matt_Chambers - 07/24/2019 10:37 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - SoreAndSlow - 11/21/2019 07:58 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - SoreAndSlow - 11/21/2019 08:10 AM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Lunis Orcutt - 11/21/2019 03:40 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - jungar - 05/01/2020 02:36 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - wristofdoom - 04/17/2021 07:56 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/18/2021 02:21 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - David.P - 04/18/2021 02:31 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - wristofdoom - 04/18/2021 06:26 PM  
 Select-and-Say compatibility of SciTE text editor   - Lunis Orcutt - 04/18/2021 07:31 PM  
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 03/03/2016 07:18 PM
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PG LTU
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I believe I used to have Select-and-Say compatibility when using the SciTE text editor (maybe back in my prior version, DNSPro11), but I no longer do with DNS13Pro.  I had a "Compatibility Module Status" section hanging around in my nsuser.ini file for version SciTE v.3.0 but the name and/or version has changed since then.  Anyone have it working?

 

Here is what I tried:

 

[SciTE|3.5\Compatibility Module Status]

Global Dictation=1


[SciTE|3.5.1\Compatibility Module Status]

Global Dictation=1


[SciTE4AutoHotkey|3.0\Compatibility Module Status]

Global Dictation=1


[SciTE4AutoHotkey|3.0.06\Compatibility Module Status]

Global Dictation=1


[SciTE4AutoHotkey|3.0.06.01\Compatibility Module Status]

Global Dictation=1


But, so far, no luck.  Anyone been able to get it to work?
TIA!!


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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 03/04/2016 12:27 PM
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PG LTU
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I have found that the mods to nsuser.ini don't seem to matter, and I have completely deleted all of the above entries (and the others I tried) with no ill effects on SciTE.  

 

Instead, I found my best results -- and a solution -- by adding to the nsapps.ini file as follows:

 

[SciTE]
App Support GUID={dd100104-6205-11cf-ae61-0000e8a28647}

[SciTE\Enable Class Names]
Scintilla=5


I believe that the original setting was Scintilla=1, but with trial and error, the above setting of 5 lets me Select-and-Say not just recently dictated text, but all text in the viewport.  

 

Only problem I noticed is if you have the "Enable multiple text matches" setting checked and you try to select a word that has multiple instances, you won't get the little numbers allowing you to choose which one, and it will look like nothing has happened.  If you uncheck that option, you can select the word, and if it is the wrong instrance, just say "select again" as is the usual way to deal with this when that setting is unchecked.

 

More info is here (but is dated back to DNS 7 and 8):

http://nuance.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3765/~/enabling-full-select-and-say-capability-in-other-applications-for-dragon

 

But this is great news for me.  Hope it helps some of you voice coders, too . . .



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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.

 09/19/2016 09:08 AM
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Derek Morin
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Can confirm, this seems to work - at least with initial testing.  NOTE: the green check mark doesn't go on, but you can say "select ..."

 

NOTE: my nsapps.ini file is at:

C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking14\nsapps.ini



-------------------------

 


 




 09/19/2016 09:16 AM
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Derek Morin
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This also seems to work for notepad++

[NOTEPAD++]
App Support GUID={dd100104-6205-11cf-ae61-0000e8a28647}

[NOTEPAD++\Enable Class Names]
Scintilla=5

-------------------------

 


 


 11/20/2017 10:47 AM
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nohatsnotrainer..
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Originally posted by: Derek Morin This also seems to work for notepad++ [NOTEPAD++] App Support GUID={dd100104-6205-11cf-ae61-0000e8a28647} [NOTEPAD++\Enable Class Names] Scintilla=5

I'm having trouble getting this to work. Adding this to my nsapps.ini I still get the 'unknown text field' message from Dragon, and do not gain "Select and Say" functionality. I've tried changing the case of 'Notepad++', and even changing the name of the executable (and then matching this in the nsapps.ini) oon the off chance that would work, but with no success.

 

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

More generally I would be interested to hear which editors are recommended for voice coding? I do all my LaTeX-ing in win32pad, but I find writing for instance Python without context highlighting to be quite unpleasant, but as stated above, I'm having trouble getting set up with anything else.

 11/20/2017 02:30 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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                    Welcome to the World's Most Popular Speech Recognition Forum


Editing the nsapps.ini file does not typically enable Select-&-Say in most applications; just a few. We were not able to enable Select-&-Say for Notepadd++ on our system. We only use Notepadd++ for editing KnowBrainer commands which are in XML format and easier to see than simply opening our commands in, for example, Windows Notepad (which is Select-&-Say enabled). Most of the time, we prefer to edit commands directly in the Dragon and KnowBrainer Command Browser's which are both Select-&-Say enabled. Notepadd++ simply wasn't created for speech recognition use.


Unless you're using KnowBrainer VerbalBasic (verbal VB scripting) if possible, you might consider working with Notepad or WordPad but again, we don't know exactly what you're doing so these suggestions may offer little assistance.



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 11/22/2017 05:24 AM
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nohatsnotrainer..
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I'm looking for a text editor I can use for writing Python, C++, etc. code. I've been using win32Pad up to now for writing LaTeX, but writing, for example, python, without context highlighting is pretty unsatisfactory.

I'd be really interested to hear what solutions people have to this problem as I'm sure it's one a lot of people have encountered.

 

Thanks in advance for your time

 04/21/2021 11:51 PM
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alexander
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if you dig around the forums there are quite a few discussions to help get you started

 

Frequent Asked Questions (FAQ) on programming by voice (vocola.net)

most developers use vocola, dragonfly or castor and end up writing commands in Python or Vocola.  I use sublimetext and vscode mostly.

 

see also Handsfreecoding.org.  Also several threads on this forum like eg:

KnowBrainer Speech Recognition Forums - Natlink/dragonfly newbie learning resources

 

 03/28/2017 12:08 PM
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David.P
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Awesome! This must be about the first time in about a decade someone actually manages to hack Select-And-Say into a supposedly "non-supported application".

This also shows that the ancient method of 2003 still applies, completely unchanged.

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 03/28/2017 06:44 PM
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PG LTU
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Hi David -- nice to see you back. Yes, I mentioned that link above and as you guessed, it is where I got a clue to try. But interesting that the table of choices back then was so limited, so through the years Dragon added editor classes. From those days:

 

If the control behaves like this Use this value
Edit 1
RichEdit 2
RichEdit20A 3
RichEdit20W 4


Whereas the Scintilla class is number 5. I think if you look through the ini file you will see classes up to 9 are supported. All behind the scenes, so to speak.



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 03/28/2017 07:37 PM
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Jole
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Amateur question: how did you find the name of the window? I'm using Dragon 13 with Windows 7 at work and Dragon 15 with Windows 10 at home.

I'm super excited, as I started learning how to code (and was loving it) soon before my injury in late 2013, and if this means I can get back into it without too steep a learning curve, then that would be fantastic.
 03/28/2017 08:31 PM
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PG LTU
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Check out the Nuance Answer linked above.  There it tells you:

 

You first need to find out the name of the executable (.exe) file. Sometimes this is the same as the .exe file listed in the properties of the Start menu item or desktop shortcut for the program. Sometimes you need to start the application, then press Ctrl+Alt+Del, choose Task Manager, and look on the Processes tab to find the name of the executable file. Case is significant; frequently the executable name is all uppercase.

Next you need to find out the class names of any edit controls used in the application.

Two ways to do this:

  1. Ask the developer of the application.
  2. Use a utility that displays window class names in a running application. Such utilities include Winspector, Window Detective, and the Spy++ utility in Microsoft Visual Studio.

Once you know the class name(s), complete the following steps to enable Select-and-Say:

 

And go from there.  Let us know what application you are planning to use, and what edit control and number works.  Have fun,



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.

 03/28/2017 10:09 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Originally posted by: PG LTU ...then press Ctrl+Alt+Del, choose Task Manager...



Just adding a smidgen to PG's sage advice…

The two-step process of pressing {Ctrl+Alt+Del} followed by clicking the Task Manager is no longer required. Try substituting pressing {Ctrl+Shift+Esc} or if you're using KnowBrainer, say Start <Task Manager> to open the Task Manager.



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 03/01/2018 11:21 PM
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PG LTU
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This does not appear fully implemented for Dragon 15. Has anyone worked out what number in Scintilla=5, yet?

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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.

 07/24/2019 10:37 AM
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Matt_Chambers
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I haven't been able to get Notepad++ to work properly with Dragon 15, even after some experimentation. Accordingly, I have switched to another text editor, ProgramEdit, that uses a rich edit control. Dragon seems to be able to enable select and say without any need to edit any of the ini files.
 11/21/2019 07:58 AM
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SoreAndSlow
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Hi PG LTU, thank you for sharing this valuable discovery.

I made the changes and was able to use The Select and Say feature in Scite, thank you, however while it worked okay in a small sub 100 line file, when a use it in a larger one, it causes the system to completely freeze for 10 to 30 seconds every time I attempted to select a word, which is obviously extremely frustrating, have you experienced this?

I expect Dragon is reading and computing all of the text in the file instead of just what is visible on the screen, perhaps due to incompatibility, do you know of a workaround for this?


Thank you

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 11/21/2019 08:10 AM
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SoreAndSlow
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Additional:
Worryingly, I am getting the same freezing behaviour in SciTE4AutoHotkey when attempting to dictate text with the above modifications removed from the aforementioned file (file saved and closed) and Dragon restarted (several times)

Has anyone out experience this behaviour?
Is there a way to force a particular speech/text setting that will not attempt to read from the text input and simply write in to it nice and quickly? I am using mostly dragonfly commands for navigation anyway and have already written my own select word alternative (using AutoHotkey and the find on page hotkeys) which is just as fast in small files and substantially faster in large files.

Thanks again

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 11/21/2019 03:40 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We just released a new KnowBrainer workaround command (Build 11-21-19) that should be effective but only a workaround. We agree with your suspicion but cannot test your utility.

1. Begin by disabling Select-&-Say to bring back your speed. This will prevent Dragon from trying to absorb all of the text.

 

2. If you have KnowBrainer 2017, download the latest commands. We have just released the final version of our new Type <dictation> command that will allow you to dictate anywhere with proper capitalization and spacing. All you have to do is place your cursor where you want your target app or select any word you wish to edit/correct. This new command is smart enough to figure out when you need capitalization, an extra space or no-space.

 

However, the best solution would be to use DragonCapture for direct Smart Dictation without having to use a trigger command. We use the previous KnowBrainer command for correcting.



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 05/01/2020 02:36 PM
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jungar
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So just for reference - I lost my documentation on how to add Select-&-Say to Notepad++.  I figured it out again, and decided to post it where I could find it the next time I forgot (again)... ) .   So, the text above mostly works, but:

  1. Stop Dragon (and all associated programs)
  2. Stop Notepad++ (and all associated programs).
  3. Edit the C:\%PROGRAMDATA%\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\nsapps.ini .
  4. Step 4 - Put the following text in the bottom of the file.


    [NOTEPAD++]
    App Support GUID={dd100104-6205-11cf-ae61-0000e8a28647}

    [NOTEPAD++\Enable Class Names]
    Scintilla=5


  5. Save the file. Re-run Notepad++ and Dragon (and any associated applications you use). You should be all set. (At least for windows 10 as of April 2020.)

 



 04/17/2021 07:56 PM
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wristofdoom
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Hello, I am checking to see if I can enable another application using the same method that jungar had success within Notepad++


I've identified the class name of the application, but how my supposed to figure out what number I should use? With NPD, value is 5... I understand that it can go all the way up to 9.


But what do these numbers mean and how can they be worked out for a particular application? Is there a more scalable method than just using guess and check?

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 04/18/2021 02:21 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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The previous hack only works in a handful of apps

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 04/18/2021 02:31 PM
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David.P
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> The previous hack only works in a handful of apps

 

This doesn't answer the question:

 

>> I've identified the class name of the application, but how am I supposed to figure out what number I should use? With NPD, value is 5... I understand that it can go all the way up to 9.

 

...which also has not been answered so far, ever. It could be however, that there is no way to answer it other than "If you are not sure which value to use, use trial and error to find the correct value".



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 04/18/2021 06:26 PM
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wristofdoom
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Good to know, thank you David.

Lunis, you said:

> The previous hack only works in a handful of apps

Has anybody ever put together a list of what these handful of applications are?

I searched around the web and looked at the Knowbrainer quick tips, and I have come up with the following list for which the nsapps.ini modification works. I've only verified Notepad++ personally.

- Notepad++
- Jarte
- SCITE https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35802922/can-i-use-dragon-dictation-software-full-text-or-select-and-say-feature-with-s
- TX Textcontrol 19 https://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=23572

Are there other applications?

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 04/18/2021 07:31 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We never kept up with this but it may be a moot issue in another year when Microsoft tackles these types of Dragon obstacles.

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