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Topic Title: 'Dragon should not be put in elevated mode.'
Topic Summary: Still getting this problem even after performing the KnowBrainer Quick Tip on it.
Created On: 11/07/2020 01:56 PM
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 11/07/2020 01:56 PM
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Brenda
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I have just renewed my computer. On the old one, imagine if neither Dragon or KnowBrainer is loaded.  If I then double click on the KnowBrainer icon on my desktop, this will load both programs.  If I do the same on my new computer, I get the message,

‘Dragon should not be put in elevated mode.’

I have read the Quick Tip instructions on elevated mode and followed them to a tee.

1. Click the "Start" button.
2. Click "Computer".
3. Double-click the "Local Disk C:" drive.
4. Double-click the "Program Files (x86)" folder.
5. Double-click the "Nuance" folder.
6. Double-click the "NaturallySpeaking15"folder.
7. Double-click the "Program" folder.

8. Right-click "natspeak.exe".  (There was only a "natspeak" with a compatibility tab on it).  No "natspeak.exe."

9. Select "Properties".
10. Click the "Compatibility" tab.

11. Clear the check mark from "Run as Administrator".  ("Run this program as an administrator" was already unchecked.

12. Click "OK".

I still get the same problem.  Why is this?  Has anybody got any other ideas how to solve this please?

Thank you.



-------------------------

Brenda



DPI 15.61, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Quad Core i7, 8 GB RAM, Nuance Wireless / Dragon-Bluetooth Headset



 11/07/2020 03:28 PM
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kkkwj
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Don't worry about the missing ".exe" suffix. Windows automatically hides it by default. You can turn on hidden extensions by settings your default options (you can search the net for how to do it or ask here).


Elevated mode: Running a program (any program) in elevated mode (as Windows administrator) gives it permissions to hack anything on your computer. Without elevated permissions, a bad program (or one that loses its way and points into restricted areas) will be blocked by the operating system from doing damage.


If the "Run as Administrator" is unchecked, that's good; that's where you want it. Check the shortcuts on your desk (they can also be run as administrator). Right the shortcut, click the Advanced tab, and uncheck the "Run as Administrator" option. Good luck!

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 11/08/2020 07:02 AM
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Brenda
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That's it! Thank you.

Just to confirm and refine your answer: you right click the shortcut icon, click Properties > Advanced > Uncheck 'Run as administrator' box > OK> Apply > OK.

Worked a treat.

-------------------------

Brenda



DPI 15.61, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Quad Core i7, 8 GB RAM, Nuance Wireless / Dragon-Bluetooth Headset

 11/08/2020 07:48 PM
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kkkwj
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There's nothing quite like knowing the magic incantation applied to the right place in Windows, is there? I don't know how a normal person would figure all this stuff out. I have been saved by other knowledgeable wizards many times in my software life. It's the normal way. Glad to help. Cheers, Kevin

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 11/09/2020 01:44 AM
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Mav
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Apart from a "regular person" knowing basics about account security, I think the main question is: Why did natspeak.exe and your desktop links get their "run as administrator" flag checked in the first place, since the default (that should work for the vast majority of users) is to run Dragon without elevated rights.

You do use another user account apart from Administrator for your daily work, don't you?

 

mav

 11/09/2020 09:40 AM
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Brenda
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Apart from a "regular person" knowing basics about account security, I think the main question is: Why did natspeak.exe and your desktop links get their "run as administrator" flag checked in the first place, since the default (that should work for the vast majority of users) is to run Dragon without elevated rights.
You do use another user account apart from Administrator for your daily work, don't you?

mav


No, I am the only user of the computer therefore I am the administrator and UAC is off as advised by Knowbrainer. One thing I did notice on my new computer, when I right clicked the shortcut, clicked on Properties, on the 'Compatibility' tab, the 'Run this program as an administrator' was unchecked. However, when I right clicked on the shortcut then clicked on, Properties > Advanced, the 'Run as administrator' box was checked. That's when I unchecked it and solved the problem. What's going on there and why was this setting as so? I do not know why it was like that unless I clicked on or changed something that I shouldn't have.

After your comment, I checked the shortcut with that path on my old computer. The 'Run as administrator' box was already unchecked there. The Compatibility tab setting was also clear on that computer.

Anyway, it seems to be okay now.

I have another problem that needs solving but should I start another thread for this?

Thank you



-------------------------

Brenda



DPI 15.61, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Quad Core i7, 8 GB RAM, Nuance Wireless / Dragon-Bluetooth Headset



 11/10/2020 12:56 AM
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kkkwj
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Yes, the general rule is to start a new post for a new problem. It makes it easier to focus resources on a single topic and to find the topic (and related topics) in the future. Be sure to search the forum a bit for your next problem before posting. Maybe there's already an answer waiting for you in an earlier post! :-)

-------------------------

Win10/x64, AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, 64GB RAM, Dragon 15.3, SP 6 PRO, SpeechStart, Office 365, KB 2017, Dragon Capture, Samson Meteor USB Desk Mic, Klim and JUKSTG earbuds with microphones, 3 BenQ 2560x1440 monitors, Microsoft Sculpt Keyboard and fat mouse

 11/10/2020 01:16 AM
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Mav
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Brenda the "I am the only one using the computer so I use the Administrator account" is really a bad idea and has been despised since the days of Windows XP!

Turning off UAC as well brings you back to a security level of Windows XP, basically, and that is something you most definitely do not want!

 

Even if you are the only one sitting in front of your computer, since you're connected to the internet, chances are that you catch one of the myriads of nasties out there which could easily be blocked from accessing your whole machine with administrative permissions by following a few simple rules (use a dedicated user profile without admin permissions and activate UAC).

 

It's not only risky for your own machine/data but irresponsible as well because such poorly setup machines can very easily be captured to work in a botnet without you even noticing.

 

mav

 

 11/10/2020 04:58 AM
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Brenda
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Mav
if it is as you say, how should I change my account? Bearing in mind, I have had my previous computer since 2013 and have not had a problem since then.

Why am I also getting contradictory instructions from KnowBrainer to turn off the UAC as one of their sand traps?

kkkwj
Good advice, I shall do that although I may find the answer on the Internet.

Thank you all for your advice.

-------------------------

Brenda



DPI 15.61, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Quad Core i7, 8 GB RAM, Nuance Wireless / Dragon-Bluetooth Headset

 11/10/2020 06:38 AM
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Mav
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Originally posted by: Brenda Mav if it is as you say, how should I change my account? 

I'm afraid I won't be able to administrate your machine for you, but perhaps you have someone who can assist you?

Basically, it's not that hard: Create a new user account with standard permissions (regular user, no admin) and use this account for your daily work.

Set UAC to standard (the only problem Dragon _can_ have with UAC is if you change the setting after installation, so you should uninstall and then re-install Dragon with the new settings to be sure. Keep your user profile and this reinstallation should be a matter of a few minutes).

Now you should be better protected and get informed whenever a potentially dangerous action (requiring administrative permissions) is about to happen. If you initiated that action you can confirm elevated permissions, if not you can stop malware in its tracks before it wrecks your system.

 

hth,

mav

 11/10/2020 07:39 AM
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Brenda
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When in the UAC interface, I cannot see anywhere a setting that I can set to "Standard" as you allude to.

I still cannot understand why KnowBrainer in the Quick Tips recommend turning off the UAC as part of the setup whereas you say otherwise. I'm sure Lunis has mentioned this many times on the forum so I am now confused.

-------------------------

Brenda



DPI 15.61, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Quad Core i7, 8 GB RAM, Nuance Wireless / Dragon-Bluetooth Headset

 11/10/2020 10:27 AM
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kkkwj
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I can't speak for Lunis or Mav, but the UAC feature is a hassle for so many users that many people turn it off (as Lunis recommended). Mav is also right that your machine is a bit more secure if you leave it on, because the machine will detect potentially harmful operations (like installing new software) that can affect the operating system itself. It's a good idea in theory, but in practice it has many limitations. If you double click on a new file to install the program you want and the UAC asks you if you want to allow the installer file to modify your machine, what else are you going to say other than "yes, go ahead?"


For example, decades ago I tried doing my daily work in a non-privileged, non-admin account on Windows (a totally standard practice on Unix machines). But it was such a hassle to log out and log in again as an admin (to install, remove, repair, or do some other admin task) that I soon gave up on that idea. In my case, the solution hassle outweighed the risk of running in admin mode. I also tried disabling UAC for a while, but I found the tradeoff to be opposite in that case. It was not too much of a hassle to answer prompts when something triggered the UAC.

There is no universal answer for these kinds of things. You'll have to try them out, see what works for you, and make your own decisions. If you only rarely install or modify software, Mav's recommendation of working daily in a standard user account is easy to do and provides more security for your machine.



It seems to me that malware these days is *far* more sophisticated than things the UAC feature can catch. If you're worried about Malware, you might consider Malwarebytes (or some other equivalent, if there is one). I've used it for years with good results. I work with Word and Powerpoint files and websites from the Internet every day, and MWB has caught various things. You can always scan such documents with VirusTotal (free), but it's nicer to have a competent program running locally, for a variety of reasons.

-------------------------

Win10/x64, AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, 64GB RAM, Dragon 15.3, SP 6 PRO, SpeechStart, Office 365, KB 2017, Dragon Capture, Samson Meteor USB Desk Mic, Klim and JUKSTG earbuds with microphones, 3 BenQ 2560x1440 monitors, Microsoft Sculpt Keyboard and fat mouse

 11/10/2020 10:30 AM
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PG LTU
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I don't know why, either! Lunis may answer but I don't think his reason ever made sense to me (but that is true for other "sand-traps" as well - while some I agree with personally, it makes no sense to assign those options to everyone - better to explain what the choices are and why you might want it one way or the other).

In particular, UAC which is not part of Dragon in the first place (it is a fundamental part of modern computer architecture). Maybe turning it off is a shortcut to help in providing actual remote assistance, but I've long opined what a ridiculous suggestion turning off UAC is!! While using UAC I _do_ suggest running the installation and/or repair of Dragon from your user account (whether ordinary or as an administrator account) by right-clicking the setup file and running _that_ as an administrator, but even still, no shortcuts for running Dragon once it's installed should have that "run as administrator" setting.

 

EDIT after cross-posting with Kevin, note there are ways of keeping UAC running while suppressing all those pesky notices, too (or a selection of them).  But the first time you are suprised with a UAC notice you didn't expect, you'll be glad of the opportunity to investigate the reason . . .



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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 11/10/2020 12:31 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Minimally 25% of our Dragon 12 clients could not run Dragon and sometimes not even install without disabling the UAC. Although fairly rare, we are still running into situations where we cannot install Dragon without disabling the UAC. Also note that the 2nd page of the KnowBrainer Dragon Installation/Training Guide details disabling the UAC but also includes the the opening message NOT REQUIRED. In our opinion, the UAC is a pain in the butt. It gets in the way of installing anything and easily covered by other utilities such as Malwarebytes and antivirus utilities. Suspect executables, like some shareware, are now flagged by Windows as being non-Microsoft certified and it's much more of a pain in the butt than the UAC. All we are saying is that if you prefer to run the UAC you should. We always disable the UAC and have never experienced a problem. We do the same for our customers during remote installations but reactivate the UAC unless our customers ask us not to. We realize there are varying opinions on the value of the UAC but if you don't know, keep it turned on. However, some Dragon problems appear to be connected to the UAC so you can always temporarily disable it for test purposes.



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 11/10/2020 01:28 PM
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PG LTU
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Yes, Lunis - no probs - you are not alone in having no bad effects from turning it off. I wasn't aware the UAC is now more a recommendation rather than a setting you insist on. For those not following the recommendation, do you indicate to install using setup.exe and "run as administrator?" And I didn't know the default was to restore it if you turned it off for remote help. Good developments, IMHO. Thx for the clarifications.

-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.

 11/10/2020 01:43 PM
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R. Wilke
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Originally posted by: Brenda When in the UAC interface, I cannot see anywhere a setting that I can set to "Standard" as you allude to. I still cannot understand why KnowBrainer in the Quick Tips recommend turning off the UAC as part of the setup whereas you say otherwise. I'm sure Lunis has mentioned this many times on the forum so I am now confused.

 

The default setting is the second notch from the top, where it says "Notify me only when apps try to make changes to my computer (default)".

 

Mav couldn't provide the correct information as he tends to answer questions on an English spoken forum although he he doesn't use the resources which he better had qualifying him to do so.

 

As far as the "UAC debate", personally, I am on the side of those recommending not to play with them, and leaving them at the default.

 

 



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 11/11/2020 04:03 AM
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Mav
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In my experience, UAC hasn't been too much of a hazzle while still delivering an additional layer of security.

I'm not saying it's delivering complete protection but at least it's a try to bring a concept similar to sudo/asroot to the Windows world.

I'd definitively recommend leaving it on for "regular" users who only want to use applications on their machine and don't perfom system administration or installations on a regular basis, which I assume Brenda is one of.

 

A while back I've also witnessed a machine where UAC settings had been tampered with and where Dragon would not start, but that was an exceptional situation.

After many hours and lots of cursing it turned out that dgnuiasvr could not be started because the executable's digital signature could not be validated due to a missing root certificate and UAC wasn't the primary culprid...

 

Apart from that I haven't had a single problem with Dragon running with UAC active on the default settings.

 

mav

 11/11/2020 12:39 PM
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R. Wilke
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UAC wasn't the primary culprid...

 

UAC is never the culprit, if your program or add-on is well-behaved, and UAC is there for a reason. People recommending to tamper with it are not necessarily aware of the real issue at hand.

 

Personally, I wouldn't touch a machine where UAC is disabled with a ten-foot pole, considering all the hacking going on.



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 11/13/2020 12:40 PM
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Tiger Feet
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On the whole, I would agree with the safety issue here and this advice to Brenda should be taken seriously.

However, I am assuming that Brenda is not disabled. Hands and fingers are wonderful things when you have the use of them.

When the UAC prompt comes up when downloading new software for example, it is easy enough to click it off with your mouse. However, if you cannot use your hands, once the UAC prompt comes up, you cannot just click it off as an able-bodied person can. You then need another party to click it off for you so you can then carry on with your work. In my case, this is most annoying. Therefore, that is why I have my UAC control set at Never notify. And yes, I am the administrator.

I do not want to tempt fate here but I have never had a problem.  This is through 4 computers dating back to 2009.  Obviously, I am careful as to what I download and do not take wild risks. I also rely on Windows Defender alongside decent malware products such as Malwarebytes, Hitman Pro and SpywareBlaster.

I'm not saying it is the right or wrong way of doing it I'm just saying it suits me. I'm also willing to bet that many disabled people who cannot use their hands also have that same setting. That is not including the able-bodied people who also have that setting.

Cheers



-------------------------

Tiger Feet

| DPG 15.61 | KnowBrainer 2017 | Windows 10 Professional /64 Bit | Intel® Core™ i9 Ten-Core Processor i9-10900K (3.7GHz) 20MB Cache |  32GB RAM. | 250GB SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2, PCIe NVMe SSD (up to 3500MB/R, 2300MB/W) Boot Drive | 1TB SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2, PCIe NVMe SSD (up to 3500MB/R, 3300MB/W) Storage Drive | Sennheiser D10 USB Wireless Microphone



 11/13/2020 01:14 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Tiger,

 

You might want to check out the free version of Bitdefender which is rated #1. Hitman Pro and SpywareBlaster are a bit dated while Malwarebytes is still #1. Just food for thought. 



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KnowBrainer Speech Recognition » Dragon Speech Recognition » 'Dragon should not be put in elevated mode.'

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