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Topic Title: Individual numbers being recognized as commands
Topic Summary: Dragon thinks 5 is a command
Created On: 09/02/2019 12:34 PM
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 09/02/2019 12:34 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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I'm having a strange problem that recurs intermittently. When I dictate a number, such as "four" or "three", occasionally the cursor will move down or to the right, and Dragon will not insert "four" or "three" in the text. This doesn't happen all the time. I've noticed it mostly in DragonPad, but it is possible that it occurs in other applications.

I've checked the recognition history, and it always shows that I dictated a number, but indicates that it is recognizing a command.  I have checked my commands, using the Command Browser, and there seemingly are no commands or lists that have nothing but a number in the command name. Is there a way for me to identify which command is causing the problem?

Surprisingly, I had this problem in Dragon Preferred 13, when I was using Vocola to write custom commands. I always assumed it had something to do with my Vocola commands, but now it is recurring in Dragon 15 Professional Individual, And I am not using Vocola.

As always, suggestions are welcomed. I could try a new user, of course, and only gradually import groups of commands, but because the problem is intermittent I am skeptical that I would be able to be certain that the new user has fixed the problem.

 09/02/2019 12:48 PM
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Alan Cantor
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The behaviour you are seeing is what I would expect had you previously activated the MouseGrid.

But if you have a bunch of old Vocola scripts, I would look there first.
 09/02/2019 01:34 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: Alan Cantor The behaviour you are seeing is what I would expect had you previously activated the MouseGrid. But if you have a bunch of old Vocola scripts, I would look there first.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I don't use the MouseGrid, and I'm not using Vocola with DPI 15.

I think I have found the offending Advanced Scripting command.  I have a command that moves the cursor left, right, up, or down up to 100 spaces. (I don't like having to say "move" or "go" – I just want to say, for example, "down 12".

The List that contained left, right, up, and down had a last line in it that was blank. It seems that perhaps DPI was interpreting that as meaning the null set, so that if I said "5", it interpreted it as a command, even though I thought my list only had left, right, up, and down. In other words, the List looked like this:

"left
right
up
down

"

when it needed to be:

"left
right
up
down"

Very surprising.

 09/02/2019 03:48 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Spoke too soon. The problem just reoccurred.

I will delete this command and see if the problem continues. Very strange.
 09/02/2019 04:17 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Interestingly, I can't seem to make the problem go away.

I rewrote the command as a DVC command, but the problem recurs. Seems there is some sort of bug where the program recognizes the blank line in the list as one of the entries for the variable.

I suppose if I got really fancy I could put some sort of If statement or Case statement in for all situations where the first variable is blank, it would type the spoken form of the second variable.

Very strange. I really don't remember having this in NaturallySpeaking before version 13.
 09/02/2019 09:14 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Nuance isn't exactly famous for conducting extensive beta testing. We suspect that they are simply unaware that enabling auto-gain can increase Dragon mis-recognitions that may be interpreted as commands. Since we began using DPI 15, DPG 15 and DMPE 4, we have noted more accidental KnowBrainer misfires. We recently dealt with this problem by removing around 50% of our commands. For example you might say “ to write” and Dragon might interpret your dictation as as move 2 right; a Dragon command. We like auto-gain but this is 1 of the disadvantages. If this becomes too much of an issue for you, consider disabling auto-gain and rerunning the Microphone Check.



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 09/02/2019 11:03 PM
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Alan Cantor
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This is an interesting finding. I use lots of list commands and have never noticed this before.

However, I was not able to replicate the problem. When I made this custom Advanced Scripting command:

Test test <fruit>

The list consists of the following three items, with a blank line at the end...

Apples
Bananas
Oranges
[Blank line]


When I tested this command, it worked as expected. It was only triggered when I said one of the three list items. When I substituted another word or phrase, e.g., "test test five," Dragon didn't recognize it as a command.
 09/03/2019 03:07 AM
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Stephan Kuepper
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Alan,

I wouldn't expect this test scenario to replicate the issue. What if you reverse the order of the words to " test test"? That would give you the same syntax as the " 5" command that Matt describes. "Test test five" should never fire the command as "five" isn't in the list at all, but "test test" should, if the blank line indeed means that you can utter the command with or without one of the words in the list. (To have "test test five" fire the command you'd have to write it as "test test ".)

Matt,

it sounds like you didn't remove the blank line from your list when you created the DVC script? You definitely should.

Hope that helps, Stephan


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 09/03/2019 08:57 AM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: Stephan Kuepper Matt, it sounds like you didn't remove the blank line from your list when you created the DVC script? You definitely should. Hope that helps, Stephan

Thanks, Stephan, but I definitely removed the blank line, at least as much as you can in the Command Browser. (There always seems to be a hard return at the end of a list.)

I'm pretty sure I have isolated the command that is causing the problem, because if I remove the command the problem disappears. But darned if I can figure out why it is causing the problem.

I will keep experimenting to see if there's a way to fix this.

 09/03/2019 12:16 PM
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PG LTU
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Blank lines in lists have nothing to do with it. What exactly is the Recognition History showing? Just the word "Five" or is it "five" (case matters) by itself, with the x as a command?

Originally posted by: Matt_Chambers I have checked my commands, using the Command Browser, and there seemingly are no commands or lists that have nothing but a number in the command name.


You needn't look in the command name, but rather your lists. Export your commands as XML and towards the bottom of the file, you will find the listing commands list contents. Search for the term that triggers the problem. If you have any command add-on sets, you'll have to look there (KB could be a culprit if you use it).

Hth,

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PG





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 09/03/2019 03:21 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: PG LTU Blank lines in lists have nothing to do with it. What exactly is the Recognition History showing? Just the word "Five" or is it "five" (case matters) by itself, with the x as a command?
Originally posted by: Matt_Chambers I have checked my commands, using the Command Browser, and there seemingly are no commands or lists that have nothing but a number in the command name.
You needn't look in the command name, but rather your lists. Export your commands as XML and towards the bottom of the file, you will find the listing commands list contents. Search for the term that triggers the problem. If you have any command add-on sets, you'll have to look there (KB could be a culprit if you use it). Hth,

It's showing 5 x.  There is no command that has only a single number, hence my bewilderment.

The command that I think is causing the problem has two lists, the first containing four items: left, right, up, and down; the second containing numbers, such as 1 through 100.  One should be able to trigger the command only by saying something like "up 30". 

Over the last few days, I have tried the command with simple number lists, containing only numbers, and lists with written and spoken forms, like "five\5".  These changes did not resolve the problem.

Yesterday, I added a new version of the first list to my commands, with a different name, but the same elements (left, right, up, and down).  So far, this seems to have resolved the problem, but it may recur.

 09/03/2019 04:38 PM
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PG LTU
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"5" is not in the Dragon vocabulary. It comes from a command name list or a custom word entry. When you say "five," Dragon recognizes "five" but uses its internal rules (and your setting in Options) to format it as a numeral or a word. If the recognition history shows the number itself, it comes either from a custom word you added or a command name (from a list, probably). Look in custom words, look in the xml file of exported commands. Let us know.

Btw, the format for a custom word would be "5\five" if you wanted "5" as the written part or the part for use in the command and "five" is what you say (spoken part). I have mentioned the problem with number lists before, and they should be complex up to at least the setting you have in options.



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PG





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 09/03/2019 04:53 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: PG LTU "5" is not in the Dragon vocabulary. It comes from a command name list or a custom word entry. When you say "five," Dragon recognizes "five" but uses its internal rules (and your setting in Options) to format it as a numeral or a word. If the recognition history shows the number itself, it comes either from a custom word you added or a command name (from a list, probably). Look in custom words, look in the xml file of exported commands. Let us know. Btw, the format for a custom word would be "5\five" if you wanted "5" as the written part or the part for use in the command and "five" is what you say (spoken part). I have mentioned the problem with number lists before, and they should be complex up to at least the setting you have in options.

 

Thank you.

There is no custom word "5". I had checked that first.

Accordingly, I conclude that it is somehow getting this from a custom command, but there is no custom command titled "5", either directly or as part of a list that is a title. Put another way, in theory to trigger any of the commands you should have to say something more than "five". Somehow, just saying a single digit (and it doesn't have to be five, it could be four or seven or whatever) triggers the command.

In any event, it seems that by deleting the command that consisted of two parts, and reformulating it very slightly, almost trivially, the problem has gone away. For that reason, I'm pretty sure I know which command was causing the problem, but not why. If the problem recurs, I'll do more testing and post here.

Interesting point about number lists needing to be complex up to the setting you have chosen in options. I have not found that to be the case in more recent versions of Dragon, but perhaps I will experiment.

 09/04/2019 01:12 AM
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PG LTU
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You know, try taking just "5" out of that list in that command (or all the number numerals below your option setting). Save, close and reopen your profile and see if the recognition of "five" becomes "five" again . . . or did you do that already?

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 09/04/2019 07:24 AM
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Matt_Chambers
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I could do that, but I would have to remove some key numbers. It's not just "five" that is being misrecognized as a command.

I have rewritten the command that I think is the offending command to deal with the complex list problem, by using your solution, PG.

Unfortunately, this morning the problem is still occurring. Interestingly, sometimes "five" is recognized as "five" and typed out and other times it is recognized as "5" and the command is triggered. Other numbers seem to be working correctly this morning.

I have tried to attach a screenshot of the recognition history.

 09/04/2019 09:51 AM
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Matt_Chambers
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This is getting even stranger. I deleted the command that I thought was the source of the problem, but I'm still finding that the word "five" is is sometimes recognized as "5" and as a command. It seems to insert a hard return.

I've checked my vocabulary several times and there is no entry for "5", just "five".  I also have confirmed that my commands don't have any commands that are triggered simply by saying "5" or "five". I've attached a screenshot from the Command Browser, using "5" as the filter word. You can see that there are no commands listed that only contain "5".  Yet, as you can see from the attached recognition history, at times when I say "five", it is recognized as "5" and triggers some sort of command.

I have tried creating a new user, but I had the same problem.

I suppose I can go through all of my commands and use PG's advice about numbers and complex lists, so that there are no single-digit numbers as numerals in lists in my commands.




 09/04/2019 12:19 PM
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PG LTU
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Yes, at this point you should export your commands into an xml file, open that file in notepad (or another simple text editor) and search for "5" to find that number inexplicably and unintentionally added to another list (and where that list is the only "word" in a command name).

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PG





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 09/04/2019 12:42 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: PG LTU Yes, at this point you should export your commands into an xml file, open that file in notepad (or another simple text editor) and search for "5" to find that number inexplicably and unintentionally added to another list (and where that list is the only "word" in a command name).

But why wouldn't that have showed up when using a filter of "5" in the Command Browser?

Anyway, I've now pruned my mycmds.dat file to remove or replace all commands that have "5" (or other single digit numbers) with a complex list, then added your suggested way to extract the numbers in the command text, a la: 

x = ListVar1
If InStr(x,"\") Then x = Left(x,InStr(x,"\")-1)

So far, I'm not having the problem of "five" being recognized as a mysterious "5" command.  But the problem has been intermittent, so I'm not declaring victory yet.



 09/04/2019 02:14 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Originally posted by: Matt_Chambers
Originally posted by: PG LTU Yes, at this point you should export your commands into an xml file, open that file in notepad (or another simple text editor) and search for "5" to find that number inexplicably and unintentionally added to another list (and where that list is the only "word" in a command name).

 

But why wouldn't that have showed up when using a filter of "5" in the Command Browser?

 

Anyway, I've now pruned my mycmds.dat file to remove or replace all commands that have "5" (or other single digit numbers) with a complex list, then added your suggested way to extract the numbers in the command text, a la: 

 

x = ListVar1 If InStr(x,"\") Then x = Left(x,InStr(x,"\")-1)

 

So far, I'm not having the problem of "five" being recognized as a mysterious "5" command.  But the problem has been intermittent, so I'm not declaring victory yet.

 

Problem just recurred, after removing or replacing all commands that have single-digit numbers in a list, with complex lists using the written form/spoken form for numerals 1 to 9.  I continue to be baffled. I think I will create yet another user to see what happens.

 09/04/2019 04:45 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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At this point, I am still having the problem. It does seem to go away if I remove some custom commands I have written for the Spelling Window and the Correction Menu. Most of those commands use numbered lists, which I have rewritten along the lines suggested by PG. That doesn't seem to fix the problem, surprisingly.

I should note that I have experienced the problem in many different applications, including DragonPad, Microsoft Word, and ProgramEdit. It doesn't really make sense to me that commands for the Spelling Window and the Correction Menu would affect behavior in other applications, but somehow it seems that they do. Of course, the Spelling Window and Correction Menu are invoked somehow in those applications, when you try to correct an error.

The problem does seem to most often occur with the number "5", but I have had it occur with other numbers in the past. Here's an example of one of the commands, for the Correction Menu:

Name: take <1to10pg>

<1to1pg> consists of the following elements:
10
1\one
2\two
3\three
4\four
5\five
6\six
7\seven
8\eight
9\nine

Here's the script:

Sub Main
    x = ListVar1
    If InStr(x,"\") Then x = Left(x,InStr(x,"\")-1)

    SendSystemKeys "{Alt+"& x &"}", 100
    Wait .2
    SendKeys "{End}",1
    Wait .1
End Sub

This all beats the heck out of me. All I can figure to do is to keep trying those commands one by one, to see if I can use any of them without triggering the "5" problem.

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