Hi everyone, forgive me for raising an issue that has been touched upon ad nauseum in the forum, but there's been so much good advice, I would really love to get a specific opinion.  I've got a disability, so I rely on Dragon exclusively for computer use, from mouse work to dictation and Internet navigation.  I've tried to avoid laptops because of the internal sound issue, but I'm moving to Asia next month, and I'll need to purchase one for my job.

From what I can gather from the various posts, I should be looking at two critical components: Processor-Core™ i7 2820QM [four cores, eight threads (hyperthreading), 8 MB of L3 cache , and 8 GB of DDR3 RAM running at either 1333 GHz or 1600 GHz.

My budget is around $1300, but I'm willing to spend several hundred more if it will make a dramatic difference in effectiveness and reliability.  Keeping in mind that I'll be in Asia, so it will probably need to come from a supplier with a global return policy.  I was looking at the following Asus (http://www.gentechpc.com/showpages.asp?pid=1103), and thinking I could buy a USB sound card to mitigate the internal sound issue.

If you guys have any thoughts, I would really really appreciate any insights you might provide.  I'm open to all suggestions!  Please let me know if I can return the favor.  Thanks!

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Nick G DELL XPS DESKTOP DNS premium 11.5 Windows 7 6 GB RAM Intel core i 5-2500 (6 MB cache, 3.3 GHz)

I can't recommend a specific machine, because one's personal preference with regard to mobility, battery life, reliability, keyboard quality, and appearance far more outweighs some general concerns of speech recognition performance.

The knowledgeable folks on this forum tend to recommend largely based on processor and memory performance.

For laptops, however, I would like to position myself as a contrarian.

First, the processor. If you go for the fastest processor, you're already looking at full-size laptops heavier than five or even six pounds. If that category were necessary to deliver excellent speech recognition performance, you then would have no choice. But with the newest processors, that is simply not the case.

My current laptop is a ThinkPad X220 tablet with an Intel core i7 2640M 2.8 GHz. Although it is a high-end mobile processor, it is nonetheless a mobile processor and not a desktop type processor which some of the full-sized laptops sport. DNS 11.5 performs so well on this processor that I absolutely see zero difference between this and my desktop which runs on the current top-of-the-line desktop processor. This makes me believe that even the next lower level mobile processors in the range of i5 2.0 GHz would do almost nearly as well.

In a word, I simply no longer believe that the processor is a major issue. It would become even lesser issue with the next generation processors.  We will need a new architecture in the speech recognition software designed to push for a need for much faster processors.

Second, the internal sound. Forget internal sound and go for external USB sound.  I came to this conclusion very reluctantly because I hated USB connectors in mobile use (clumsy and unreliable).  But unfortunately, this is the reality. Of the numerous laptops I've used, the only one that had clean (very clean) microphone input through the 3.5 mm jack was my previous laptop ThinkPad X200 tablet. And that must be a fluke, because my new X220 tablet now again has the typical mediocre microphone input (essentially unusable by my standard).

This sets you free with regard to whether you need a full-size laptop or ultracompact, because it makes no difference by the laptop itself. All you need is a USB port. (But could a laptop screw up even a thing as simple as a USB port? Well, it is possible. I've seen noisy USB ports due to poor insulation. But this is something that's very hard to determine. I only know that the ThinkPads I have owned all have clean USB ports.)

I hope you see my above comments as liberating factors. If you want me to be more direct, I'd just said this: go for the most portable, best screen, best battery life, highest-quality laptop. Along with the best microphone you can afford (ask Lunis), you are likely to lose nothing but gain everything. Avoid taking a "DNS specialty performance" mentality seeking after the best processor, almost as if there needs to be a specialty processor for DNS. You don't need it. You just need a laptop you like the most for your general purpose and get the best microphone and USB sound to go with it.

techlaw,

While I respect your opinion, I take issue with some of the things that you're pointing out.

The most important thing in choosing a laptop is cost-benefit. You can often pay more for less. On the other side of the coin, you can often pay less for more.
There is a balance here. Laptops are getting lighter, even the full-size laptops. My Core™ i7 2670QM with a full 17 inch screen, four cores/8 threads/6 MB of L3 cache, 6 GB of RAM (DDR3 1333 MHz) ways of grand total of 5.3 pounds vs. my Core2™ Duo Gateway, which is five years old and weighs 6.8 pounds with only a 15 inch screen. Also, back when I got my Gateway laptop, I got it at a bargain for $1449, which was $800 cheaper than the going MSRP online. My new laptop only cost me $849 is almost 2 pounds less than the Gateway while being almost 2 inches larger. So, things change.

In terms of raw performance, take a look at the test results provided by Rudiger using his raw performance test program. If you look closely, you'll find that my Core™ i7 980X Extreme (six cores, 12 MB of L3 cache, 24 GB of RAM (1886 MHz DDR3) running at 3.33 GHz outperforms my Core™ i7 2670QM (specs noted above) with DNS 11.5 by almost double the performance speed. Nevertheless, there are two factors that aren't significantly impacted by performance. The first is accuracy, which is primarily dependent upon your microphone/soundcard and your dictation style/enunciation. The second is the time between dictation and transcription (speech and display of text). Once you find the sweet spot in terms of processor hardware, RAM, etc., going any higher on the processor chain won't make that much of a difference in terms of actual performance in free-form dictation. To put it another way, if when you pause during dictation or you execute commands, the response is immediate and text is displayed almost instantaneously, if not instantaneously, then that's all that's important. Nevertheless, even though processor speed is not the critical issue, the number of cores, the number of threads, the amount of L3 cache and your RAM are still important overall considerations for DNS performance.

In addition, your microphone/soundcard combination can have a significant impact on overall performance despite your hardware specs. The bottom line is to find that sweet spot that gives you DNS performance, provides the things that you need from a usability standpoint, and doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. In other words, it's the big picture that counts as well as all those components that go to make up the big picture. You can't just point at one factor or another because the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For example, try running DNS 11-11.5 on a netbook and you'll get a good idea of just what poor performances despite the claims by Nuance that it will work on such. Yes, you don't have to buy a supercomputer to get good performance out of DNS. But you can't cut corners either.

Lastly, don't make unwarranted assumptions about where Nuance is or is not likely to go in the future. The Dragon developers are going to continue to develop Dragon in order to achieve the optimal level of performance relative to a given state-of-the-art of the technology. That being a given, and also the fact that they will do what they can to make the next and subsequent versions backward compatible as far as is possible, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Since Intel is moving to Ivy Bridge, with the new 3-D transistors that will greatly improve performance on everything, but especially Dragon NaturallySpeaking, assuming that you can back off on hardware performance and still get the same results is an unwarranted assumption. Why pay more for less hardware when you can pay less or more hardware. That's my point. My other point is that you reach a point where you have achieved the fastest possible performance with DNS. After that, upping the anti-with more powerful processors won't provide any significant gains. In short, you can't go faster than the speed of light, and no matter how powerful your processor is, you will eventually reach a point where overall performance will simply not increase. So, find the sweet spot while you are also taking into consideration usability factors, such as size, weight, etc. Again, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so look at the whole perspective and remember that cost-benefit should be the deciding factor.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion. However, in the end the choice is up to the user, and we shouldn't make that for them. In addition, once the user has made the choice, the consequences are their's to bear. If the recommendations that we make are based solely on opinion, then we do the end-user a great disservice. We need to provide them with facts so that they can make intelligent decisions, not assumptions based on personal viewpoints.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, we make it better!
"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups" - Unknown but basically attributed to US military training

-------------------------

Hey Chuck, if you don't mind my asking, what model of Toshiba satellite are you referring to?  I would definitely like to explore that option, but the only ones that I've found with 17 inch screens have weighed 6.6 pounds or more.  Let me know if you have a chance.  Thanks!

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Nick G DELL XPS DESKTOP DNS premium 11.5 Windows 7 6 GB RAM Intel core i 5-2500 (6 MB cache, 3.3 GHz)

Nick,

My Toshiba is the Satellite P775-7320. The specs say that it is 6.6 pounds. However, I put it on a freight scale that measures anything from 1 pound up through 100 pounds and it came out as 5.7 pounds actual weight. Regardless, with the difference being less than 1 pound, anybody who finds it too heavy needs to do some weight training. The only problem with that particular model of Toshiba Satellite is that being 17.3 inches wide (i.e., measured diagonally from the upper left corner of the screen to the lower right corner of the screen) makes it a little bit bulky. However, I travel with it in a very light aluminum hard case (briefcase) in which it just barely fits and I have no problems dragging it through airports. My case also has better internal protection against dropping (foam) and damage. I'm 64 years old and I don't have any problems carrying this laptop around. I do not find it heavy at all.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, we make it better!

"One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain." - Thomas Sowell

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"However, I travel with it in a very light aluminum hard case (briefcase) in which it just barely fits and I have no problems dragging it through airports. My case also has better internal protection against dropping (foam) and damage."

Chuck,

Do you have a link to the aluminum hard case (briefcase) you use?

Best,

Alan 

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DNS 12.0 Pro (KnowBrainer + VoiceComputer  - latest versions) Buddy 7G (2nd gen) USB + Sennheiser MD 431 II - Toshiba Satellite Core™ i7 2670QM laptop 4 cores/8 threads 6 MB L3 cache 6 GB DDR3 RAM (1333 MHz) + MacBook Pro with Retina display (i7 2.7 Ghz); 16 GB RAM; 8 MB of L3 chache; 751 GB Solid State Drive (using Parallels 8 with Boot Camp).

Alan,

Unfortunately, I bought that case a long time ago. Its primary purpose is as a briefcase (aluminum housing). I don't have any information relative to where I got it. I do remember that it costs about $200 +. It just happened to be a very secure briefcase that also very nicely fit the laptops that I have purchased in the past. Regardless, I bought it about eight years ago and it has transported about four different laptops during that period. I never expected the Toshiba Satellite to fit, but it does just barely.

I would love to be able to tell you who the manufacturer was or where I got it, but unfortunately you'll just have to dig for it. I'm not sure they even still make it. However I am sure that there are other manufacturers who make similar aluminum cases. Wish I could be of more help. However, my Alzheimer's doesn't let me go back that far.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, We make it better!

Be careful what you wish for.  You may find that what you get is not what you expect, or what you want. - Aesop (620 BC - 700 BC modern interpretation)

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I am looking to replace my Dell Latitude E6500.  It is over three years old and is giving me signals that it is about to give up the ghost.  I am traveling more now and I also bring my laptop home every night.  I am considering one of thenew "UltaBooks".  The selection of memory and processor is confusing. The Asus Zenbook UX31 offers an i7  2677M but  limits the memory to 4gb.  The L3 cache is only 3 mb.   It weighs less than three pounds and that is a big deal to me.  Any comments?

I am also considering the ACER and Toshiba Ultrabooks.  Is there anything I should be looking for in these different verions of UltraBooks? 

Thanks,

 

Herb

 

 

 

Herb, a lightweight laptop is a very the deal to me also because of my pinched nerves. I think the processor the you are looking at is a little underpowered if you are going to do serious productivity work on that machine. The lightest machine that I would use continually for Dragon NaturallySpeaking has a i7-2640M with 4 MB of cache. it is okay for e-mail and simple dictation into something like Microsoft Word but is not going to do very well if you are going to have simultaneous network traffic with security software or many applications open simultaneously.

My personal feeling is that dropping from 4 MB of cache to 3 MB of cache is actually a pretty significant hit to DNS performance. plus, the turbo boost on this processor makes it reasonably fast on dictation. However this is a purely subjective opinion on my part and while the processor that you are considering will work for Dragon NaturallySpeaking I would find it too slow. There are several manufacturers that are now including the i7-2640M in machines around 3 pounds. I use the Panasonic J 10 which is 2 pounds but it is extremely expensive and therefore I really cannot recommend it.

Phil Schaadt

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DNS12 Pro BM V Large Vocabulary plus KB or Voice Computer running Win7 64 bit machines with i7-2640M to i7-3960x and i7-3770K processors plus a Sony VAIO Windows 8 machine. DBX Audio Gate with Allen&Heath mixer/USB Audio; Andrea PureAudio USB  usually with Airline 77 or Audio-Technica but also Sennheiser MD431 II, theBoom, et. al.

TechLaw, you my friend have certainly struck the contrarian point of view on this post.  But I have to thank you for it.  I was looking for any and all opinions, and I'm immensely grateful that you took the time and effort to share yours.  Likewise, Chuck!  I can't thank you enough for the insight. 

In fact, the debate here touches upon one topic that I forgot to mention, but is definitely a consideration for me in this purchase, i.e. mobility.  I thought about purchasing an Asus U24E-XH71 (11.6 inch screen, 3.3 pounds) (http://www.gentechpc.com/config.asp?config_id=U24E-XH71 .  It appears that I can customize this with a processor (2nd Gen Intel Core i7-2670QM, 2.2-3.1GHz,32nm, 6MB, 45W), and RAM: 8GB DDR3 1333 Dual-Channel (4GB x 2).  Unless I'm mistaken, that seems to fit the recommended specs for optimal Dragon performance.  However, I'm curious whether getting a laptop of this size will come at the expense of optimizing performance, i.e. performance that could be achieved by purchasing a larger laptop.

Forgive me if this is a silly question, computer literacy is not my best quality.  :-) I would be grateful for any thoughts you might have on the subject.  Thanks again!

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Nick G DELL XPS DESKTOP DNS premium 11.5 Windows 7 6 GB RAM Intel core i 5-2500 (6 MB cache, 3.3 GHz)

Nick

I could be way off here but, I took a look at the specifications on your laptop and it seems to me that your processor only has 4 MB of cache. I say that I could be way off here because I thought that all models of I7 processors had more than 4 MB of cache.

I recently was in the same situation as you and I purchased a laptop based on recommendations I found on this forum. I think you'll find that most of the users here will recommend purchasing a processor with at least 6 MB of cache. Although I have never tried using version 11 with a processor that only had 4 MB of cache. It is my understanding that anything less 6 MB of cache will lead to a very large lag time when dictate. (It will take a longer time between dictating the phrase and seeing the phrase appear on the screen)

Obviously, the choice is yours and like I said I may be wrong altogether because I do not remember any I7 models with only 4 MB of cache. It might be worth a quick call to the manufacture just to make sure of the specifications.

WheelsTB, thanks for weighing in!  And you're right, the original model comes with an i 7 processor with 4 MB of cache, but I was planning on customizing it to include the processor with 6 MB.  Good to have that point reinforced though.  Thanks again!

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Nick G DELL XPS DESKTOP DNS premium 11.5 Windows 7 6 GB RAM Intel core i 5-2500 (6 MB cache, 3.3 GHz)

All I can say is that my laptop with the humble i7 2640M 2.8 GHz 4MB of L3 is so fast that I don't suffer any lags. I'm not talking about theoretical lags that might exist. I am talking about the practical lags that would actually affect your productivity. It keeps up with me even if I dictate continuously with non-stopping speech at a good reading speed. How fast can you dictate? At my regular dictation speed, I simply notice zero difference between my laptop and my desktop which has a much more powerful desktop processor.

No one can disagree that a faster CPU is faster. The meaningful question is how much speed do you need. For me, I need no more.   There simply is zero compromise I can see.

By the way, as has been discussed numerous times in the past, it is important to remember that the microphone and soundcard quality (especially the microphone) also has a significant impact on the DNS processing speed. If you feed noisy audio and low-quality dictation to the processor, it will slow it down for sure. Considering this, maybe it is a good idea to over-invest on a processor to just have some reserves for those situations where your audio isn't optimal. But this remains theoretical to me. I'm simply not experiencing any such need in my real life.

If I have any complaints about my new laptop, it isn't the power of its processor to drive DNS. It is many other things. But that's a different story.

I'd consider myself crazy to sacrifice other things such as form factor, battery life and mobility to just get a more powerful processor in my laptop. And there are just so many other more important things about a laptop that need to be right but hard to get there. And thank goodness that at least the CPU processing speed is not bother me at this moment.

Glad to hear that particular processor is able to perform well. As I said in my post I could be way off but I just wanted to caution Nick that there was something to think about. I am typically able to dictate between 120 and 140 words per minute. Now that I think about it those who say they were experiencing lag time were having a problem with the accuracy slider was all the way to the right.

 Possibly you do not have your accuracy slider all the way to the right? I have heard a lot of people on the forum say that it makes almost No difference whether there accuracy slider is all the way to the right or in the middle and the default position.

 

Again I am glad to hear that your laptop works wonderfully for you it will give me something to think about if I ever need to upgrade my laptop.

Good reminder on the accuracy slider. I was about to mention that. I usually put it at 75%. But when I tested at 100%, I still did not suffer noticeable lags. It could still keep up with continuous dictation at a good reading speed, although showed a bit sign of working very hard. For my regular dictation in which I actually pause and think, there's absolutely no lag at all.

Since we are deep into this discussion, I was reminded of something else that is very important about laptop DNS performance which can easily escape your mind. Some time ago, I noticed by chance that my laptop would do very well on the AC power but not so well on the battery (this was quite a while ago with a different laptop). After some investigation, I realized what was going on. It is the auto power management of the CPU.

In each power option settings, there is a place that sets a minimum CPU speed and maximum CPU speed. Usually, the maximum CPU speed is set to 100%, but the minimum CPU speed is set to 5%. The CPU is supposed to smartly manage the operating speed to save battery. In fact, the laptop manufacturers heavily rely on this kind of tuning to make good battery life claims (which are of course usually false).

The smart CPU power management is supposed to be able to automatically ramp up the speed when needed, but in reality it does not do that reliably, at least when comes to running DNS. My experience is that these automatic speed ramp up works quite well with multimedia applications, but not with DNS. Just imagine, your computer could be running at 5% of its maximum speed when you are running DNS!

Since then, one of the first things I do with a new laptop is to change the power option settings. I make at least two different options. In a maximum performance option, I set the minimum CPU speed at 100% for both battery and AC. In a balanced performance option, I set the minimum CPU speed at 50% for battery and 100% for AC. And I may also make a power saving option in which the minimum CPU speed is at 10% for battery and 50% of AC (there may be no point to save energy at AC mode, but gave the CPU auto management a chance and it would run a bit cooler, which is a benefit).

The battery life will suffer when you do this. But not catastrophically. My ThinkPad X220, for example, could do close to 6 hours on the manufacturer's power saving option, but only a bit over 4 hours on my customized maximum performance option. That's OK with me. I bought the CPU didn't I, and I want it to work for me, instead of being smart with me trying to help manufacturers to make better battery life claims. I just want it to be honest.

We just purchased a Lenovo W520 2960XM laptop with 16 Gb of RAM and the 1st thing we did is maximize all performance settings which reduces the battery life to somewhere between 3 hours and 3.5 hours but our solution was to simply purchase an extra battery and put the pedal to the metal

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Click KB 2012 REV D to Download a 30 Day Evaluation of KnowBrainer 2012 

 

 

 

I'm just curious as to how you are actually able to take advantage of all that memory? I'm not trying to criticize at all, I just curious as to what requires all that memory.

We can’t remotely begin to use 16 Gb of RAM in our notebook computer and we probably don't even need 8 but as Amin pointed out, it was too inexpensive to resist. The W520 will hold 32 Gb of RAM in 4 slots but 8 Gb Simms are pricey while 4 Gb Simms aren't much more than the price of postage. The only mistake we made was ordering the additional 8 Gb of memory after we received our computer, resulting in a manual installation which included removing the keyboard

We doubt we'll see any advantage with the 2960XM processor. The real reason we got the extra 8 Gb of RAM and the 2960XM processor is because the Big Haired Lady told us to get the best and threatened us if we didn't. However, as it turns out, we don't have to pay for most computers, iPads, iPhones and various other electronic gadgets because we purchase every item we sell on our website with our credit card which piles up the frequent flyer miles.

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Click KB 2012 REV D to Download a 30 Day Evaluation of KnowBrainer 2012 

 

 

 

That is simple and ingenious. Buy everything with a credit card and enjoy the rewards. I thought 16 GB of RAM seems like a stretch but, when you put it that way how could you resist :-)

wheels et al.,

It wouldn't make any sense to add more than 4 GB of RAM if you're only using windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7 32 bit because the operating system is limited to the total amount of RAM that it will support. For 32 bit versions of Windows, the maximum amount of RAM that these versions can access is 4 GB determined by (2³²). Multiply that out and you'll see what I mean. That comes out to 4 GB. On the other hand, the 64-bit versions of Windows can access up to (2⁶⁴). Multiply that out and it comes out to 16 EB (exabytes). Obviously the current state of hardware only supports a maximum of 24 GB, 16 GB in some cases. If you multiply it out, 16 EB is one huge number. We will never get to the point in most of our lifetimes where the hardware will support that much memory (hardware). It's also something we can live with for a very very long time without running out of memory space.

The kicker is, as I've explained several times in the past, 64-bit operating systems, which have actually been around for a long time just never at the retail level in any common or accessible format except for windows XP 64-bit, which Dragon doesn't support anyway without wrapping your leg around your neck, which is impractical to say the least. Nevertheless, there are a lot of misconceptions about what 64-bit actually means.

First, 64-bit refers to the amount of memory that can be addressed. Since Windows handles memory addressing completely, Windows 64-bit can store any application (32 bit or 64-bit) in any memory address location up to the limits of the amount of memory that is installed. So, having 16 GB of memory installed running under Windows Vista or Windows 7 64-bit, Windows can store any application in any address location up to the 16 GB limit of what is actually installed in terms of RAM. The fact that an application may be 32 bit has no bearing on where Windows can store it. Only on how much of that location in RAM can be used to store that application. In other words, a 32-bit application can be stored anywhere between the beginning of memory and the limit of the amount of RAM installed. However, it can only occupy a maximum of 4 GB at that memory location. On the other hand, 64-bit applications can make use of the full range of installed RAM. So, if a 64-bit application were 8 GB in size, the 64-bit versions of Windows would allow that application to access and load the full 8 GB it needs.

A 32-bit application cannot be created using more than 4 GB of RAM anyway. However, let's just suppose hypothetically that Microsoft Word 2007 (WINWORD.exe) required 5 MB of RAM to load and run. Under Windows 7 64-bit it wouldn't. It would either crash or simply fail to load. Since that's physically impossible anyway because 32-bit versions of any application is created using the 32-bit memory address limitation and can't use any more than 4 GB of RAM to load and run. Developing an application that uses more than 4 GB of RAM would require it to be a 64-bit compiled application. Regardless, the fact that 32-bit applications have a maximum size limitation of 4 GB has nothing whatsoever to do with where it can be stored in memory when using a 64-bit version of Windows.

The bottom line is that if you want to load, say, 60 32-bit applications on a system with Windows 7 64-bit and 16 GB of RAM and the total number of applications that you wanted to load did not exceed 16 GB, you could load them all and run them up to the limit of the total amount of RAM installed. Now, would you ever load that many 32-bit applications? Not likely, but I frequently on my Core™ i7 980X Extreme with 24 GB of RAM used anywhere between 7 GB and 8 GB at any one given point in time. The only application that I'm loading that is 64-bit is Microsoft Office 2010. All the rest of them are 32-bit applications. In short, if it were impossible to use the RAM above 4 GB to load these applications, having 16 or 24 GB of RAM would be worthless. However, it's not and having 8, 12, 16, or 24 GB of RAM simply allows me to load and run more applications up to the limits of the amount of RAM that I have installed and regardless of whether the 32-bit or 64-bit. So, is having 16 GB of RAM overkill. No. The entire purpose of going from 32-bit versions of Windows to 64-bit versions of Windows is in anticipation of the development of more 64-bit apps with larger amounts of memory required to run them. Therefore, this is basically both practical and "future proof".

Second, hardware that supports 64-bit (EMT64) allows Windows 7 or Windows Vista 64-bit to access the 64-bit registers. DNS 10.1 and DNS 11-11.5 incorporates the DGN UI Automation Server (dgnserver_x64.exe) which allows Dragon, despite being a 32-bit application, to use the 64-bit registers for loading it's files. This improves performance because DNS can load twice as much in a single load command. This is the other feature of the 64-bit versions of Windows. 32-bit versions of Windows are limited to using the DGN UI Automation Server (dgnserver.exe), which only supports the 32-bit registers, which simply means that 32-bit versions of Windows take twice as long to load Dragon or perform any Dragon read/write operations.

These are the advantages of Windows 64-bit, as well as the way Dragon is set up to run on such. Other than this, there's nothing special about 64-bit as far as the way applications loaded and run. Regardless, under Windows 7 64-bit, or Windows Vista 64-bit, there is no limitation to where Windows can load an application in memory. Again, the only limitation is the amount of RAM that can be used by a 32-bit application vs. a 64-bit application, not where in memory it can be loaded and run from.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, we make it better!

"Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count." Albert Einstein

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I just got the same laptop (W520 with 16GB RAM) but saved several hundred dollars by going with the 2860QM processor.  Slightly jealous of your 2960 though .

As far as why get all of that RAM, one reason is that it is cheap to do so.  Each 4GB stick was less than $30, so it didn't cost much to future proof the RAM.  

 I tend to use XP Mode for some work programs within Windows 7 Pro, in addition to processing large files in Photoshop, so having a lot of RAM helps.  Probably don't need 16GB though .  

Wow! I really had no idea that RAM has gotten so cheap. I've already slightly fighting the urge to upgrade even though I do not need to. Would you have just told me will definitely make it worse. Although I was try to stay strong.

Amin,

Don't be jealous. Lunis is not going to get any better performance out of his 2960 then you will out of your 2860QM. The long and the short of it is that you can't make anything go faster than the speed of light. If the performance on your system is optimal, then upping it to a 2960QM will make it perform any faster. Nice to have, but in terms of the overall performance and accuracy with regard to Dragon NaturallySpeaking, it's not going to get you there any faster.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, we make it better!

Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don't. - Pete Seeger

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You mentioned maximizing all performance settings in your post below. Would you please elaborate on what you did specifically?

 

Best,

Alan

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DNS 12.0 Pro (KnowBrainer + VoiceComputer  - latest versions) Buddy 7G (2nd gen) USB + Sennheiser MD 431 II - Toshiba Satellite Core™ i7 2670QM laptop 4 cores/8 threads 6 MB L3 cache 6 GB DDR3 RAM (1333 MHz) + MacBook Pro with Retina display (i7 2.7 Ghz); 16 GB RAM; 8 MB of L3 chache; 751 GB Solid State Drive (using Parallels 8 with Boot Camp).

Control Panel – Performance Information and Tools – Adjust Power Settings – High Performance

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 Hello techlaw, on 11/30, you said that with your ThinkPad X220 tablet, you got no-lag performance with DNS 11.5.  You went on to say "if I've any complaints about my new laptop, it isn't the power of the processor to drive DNS.  It is many other things.  But that's a different story."  I would like to hear that story, because I am considering the same laptop.  I have to take notes during one-on-one and group meetings with patients in a number of separate physical locations (so mobility is required).  I tried using the handwriting recognition with my Thinkpad X61 tablet running Vista 3 years ago and gave up.  In the last year and a half I have been using a ThinkPad X201 with a core i7 processor and 8 GB RAM, which I also find runs DNS 11.5 with no lag response.  So now I am thinking about switching to the X220 tablet to get one computer that could provide both styles of input that I need.  With Windows 8 coming up soon with many new features for multitouch tablets, I thought the X220 may be able to provide a flexible touch interface and good handwriting recognition as well as fast enough DNS 11.5 performance for me.  Could you please share your experience/complaints with me regarding the X220 performance of these other capabilities?  If anybody else has input on the potential marriage of handwriting recognition and speech recognition I would appreciate it.

Would changing my hard drive to a 7200 from a 4500 one make a noticeable difference. I am deciding whether to increase my RAM from 4Gb to 8Gb or upgrading my hard drive. Maybe even both if I can afford it. Also the RAM comes in 2 options of 1.5V or 1.35V will there be a speed implication. They are the same price. 

Your NaturallySpeaking profile is loaded into RAM and if you bump up your memory and turn off your page file, you will pretty much be free of your hard drive which means that other than your applications taking a smidgen longer to load, you shouldn't notice any difference. You'll find a step-by-step on toggling off Windows page file when you look up “virtual” in the NaturallySpeaking Quick Tips (at the top of this page) but you might want to wait until you install the extra RAM.

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eye will,

Two quick points based on your post.

First, you don't say whether you're using Windows 7 32-bit or Windows 7 64-bit. Judging by your processor, I would assume that this is a relatively new laptop because you're using a Sandy Bridge (Core™ i7 2630QM) second generation Core™ i processor. These laptops generally come preconfigured with Windows 7 64-bit. However, it's important for you to know because only the Windows 7 64-bit supports RAM greater than 4 GB.

Second, changing your hard drive from 4500 RPM to 7200 RPM won't make any noticeable difference as Lunis has already pointed out.

Third, voltage is motherboard dependent as regards whether or not you should get 1.5 V or 1.35 V RAM. You need to check with your computer manufacturer on which voltage and/or speed your systems motherboard accepts (i.e., which is compatible with your motherboard). The manufacturers have technical specifications based on type and model numbers for RAM. If you check with your laptop manufacturer, they can tell you which you should get. Installing RAM that is underpowered or overpowered (voltage) won't work at all. Basically, contact your laptop manufacturer and ask them specifically what RAM they support. Then go from there. Also, you can't mix and match RAM chips. If you got 4 GB now and you have two slots open, the 4 GB that you install to bring it up to 8 GB must be identical to the currently installed RAM. It doesn't have to be from the same RAM manufacturer, but it does have to be exactly the same technical specifications. So, check with your laptop manufacturer and get a list of supported RAM along with what you specifically have to do with your system to go from 4 GB to 8 GB. If you only have two RAM slots and they are populated with 2 x 2 GB RAM chips, then you're going to have to remove them and replace them with 2 x 4 GB RAM chips. Regardless, the RAM must be compatible with your motherboard and CPU.

Also, installing RAM chips in a laptop is a delicate process because the RAM slots are more fragile than in desktops. Be sure that you know what you're doing before you proceed on doing it yourself, if that's your intention, because it's very easy to break a laptop RAM slot connection. And, if you do that, you're dead in the water. Changing RAM or upgrading RAM in some laptops is not as easy as it is in others. Believe me, I've been there and done that a couple of times in the last 15 years and I am experienced at it. So, make sure you get the right RAM (compatible RAM) for your laptop, make sure you know what you're doing if you're going to install it yourself, check with your laptop manufacturer to make sure that you have the correct specs for the RAM that you intend to buy and install, and make sure that you have Windows 7 64-bit.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make speech recognition, We make it better!

"Life's Rule #1: Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend."  (Variant of Murphy's Law  -  Edward A. Murphy, Jr)

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Thank you for that sensible advice, I am aware of the windows 64 bit issue which I looked into when I was upgrading my Vista laptop and found out that it only uses up to 3.5Gb. I managed to change the processor as well, but it was a pain, having to almost take the computer to bits to get to the hard drive etc. This one is easily accessible. I will get the RAM from a recognised on line dealer as they guarantee the memory will be correct. For a couple of bucks more it is worth it. I assumed that as the info was on the hard drive that a faster drive would improve access times and therefore recognition speed. It is good to know that it will make no difference and save me the money of upgrading.

This topic could not have come at a better time for me. I'm thinking of making a purchase for a new laptop today. Afterwards, I plan on purchasing DNS Pro 11.5 (currently running 10.1 Pro on my four-year-old desktop). I was hoping I could get a bit of feedback on my current laptop configuration, before I make the plunge!

 

Sager NP5175 / Clevo W170HR

- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Anti-Glare Screen w/ 72% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080)
- 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM, 2.2-3.1GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache) (SKU - S2N222)
- nVidia GT 555M 2048MB PCI-Express GDDR3 DX11 with Optimus™ Technology (SKU - S3R507)
- 8GB - DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) - Special! (SKU - S4P377)
- 120GB Intel 510 Series Solid State Drive (SSD2 Serial-ATA III) (SKU - S5R055)
- 6X Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557)
- Internal 3-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS)
- Bluetooth Included
- Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth (SKU - S8R110)
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's + Microsoft Office Starter 2010 - Included with OS Purchase
- Microsoft Office 2010 Home & Student Edition - Word/Excel/PowerPoint/OneNote

 

Thanks,

Jay

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Owner and Operator http://www.disabledonline.com

Looks like an awesome computer from our perspective

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Thanks, so it's enough juice for DNS 11.5 Pro? I'll be using a VXI headset with a USB sound pod, so the laptops soundcard isn't a great concern. Bruce, right now it's under $1800, unless I can get a better deal :-)

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Owner and Operator http://www.disabledonline.com

Dragonuser76,

 I am curious about the price.

 Bruce

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