KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
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Topic Title: failed user upgrade
Topic Summary: asks for upgrade when already done
Created On: 03/07/2012 09:50 PM
Status: Post and Reply
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 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/07/2012 09:50 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/08/2012 12:02 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/13/2012 07:22 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/13/2012 07:45 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/13/2012 08:24 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/13/2012 09:44 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/14/2012 12:27 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/14/2012 12:38 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/14/2012 04:29 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/14/2012 06:13 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/14/2012 08:45 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/14/2012 10:11 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/14/2012 10:47 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/14/2012 10:56 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/15/2012 12:01 AM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/15/2012 09:46 AM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/15/2012 12:58 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/15/2012 12:59 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/15/2012 04:23 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Chucker - 03/15/2012 08:12 AM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/13/2012 07:11 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/14/2012 07:32 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/15/2012 06:11 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/15/2012 08:26 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/15/2012 08:39 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/15/2012 10:19 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/16/2012 10:45 AM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/16/2012 11:19 AM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/16/2012 12:56 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/16/2012 02:07 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/16/2012 03:55 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/16/2012 08:02 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/16/2012 08:19 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/22/2012 10:58 PM  
 failed user upgrade   - joanjps psych - 03/23/2012 10:58 AM  
 failed user upgrade   - wingclip - 03/23/2012 11:31 AM  
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 03/07/2012 09:50 PM
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joanjps psych
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I upgraded from Dragon Home 11.5 to Premier, which automatically installed as 11.5 version as well.

I subsequently created a user profile for my Sony recorder, and completed the recorder training. Now that I try to transrribe from the recorder,  an error message appears stating I need to upgrade the recorder profile from an earlier version. The upgrade then fails. So I am stuck.

Also, is it better to back up to the default backup file, or the one designated for Win Vista?

Thanks

Joan

 03/08/2012 12:02 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Did you purchase a DNS Premium 11.5 upgrade or is this an OEM version of Premium that was included with your Sony recorder? We suspect that you might be receiving the wrong error or you may have created a dedicated Sony digital recorder profile which may not work. You might consider rebuilding your digital recorder profile from a wav file. You'll find our step-by-step on this procedure in our Digital Recorder Guide

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 03/13/2012 07:22 PM
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wingclip
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Hi Lunis, My copy of DNS Premium 11 came alone and not in any package deal. The Recorder, (Sony ICD-SX712 'six dragons', was bought separately... twice.

The .wav file suggestion, though a good one, did not work. I also tried a wide variety of other formats including PCM and a large number of quality/rec mode settings beyond the ones recommended by Nuance.

The tech verified my 22 min. recording and was obviously baffled after working with me for almost two hours. I allowed him to take full control and followed his every suggestion no matter how much I felt it to be redundant or ineffective before trying. He was very helpful and I believe he was knowledgeable regarding DNS and Recorders.

I hope they find the answer.

Rich

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 03/13/2012 07:45 PM
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joanjps psych
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Rich,

I did have Preminum 11.5 installed altho when trying to save, it said I needed to upgrade my version. I did not put near the amount of effort, or sophistication, as you, but I did call Tech support. Initially, they said my program was corrupted and a re-install would lose my files because I could not longer backup. However, we restored the "mic-in" user profile that did load on the transcription ribbon . He then said I should do the training for the recorder again, from scratch, and do not use "add dictation source to another profile" option for training But before I did so, I tried the transcription ribbon and it did work despite these error messages.

For some unknown reason, I am no longer getting the error message that I have to upgrade to another version. For some reason, all the user files I had made, like the one for the Sony recorder, have disappeared except the restored file that, indeed, I can back up.

So I hope you have a miracle as well. I consider myself very lucky with an unstable program

Joan

 03/13/2012 08:24 PM
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wingclip
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Thank You Joan! That info may be invaluable! I'm not at a point where I can look and see what the mic-in options are that I have. But if I understand you correctly, you went to the "User" folder in the Backup section where DNS stores it and you reinstalled it into your newly installed program?

 I don't know if I got that right because the more I read what you said, the more I think that he simply restored your microphone profile and did nothing with the recorder. And if he told you not to add the recorder to your established profiles, then I don't think that will work for me, (mostly because I already tried that).

 I spent 2 solid days @ 12 hours per day, (9 to 9), on this and that's it. If they can't get it figured out, I'm going to just give up on the recorder option. It really would have been nice though. My wife says I'm obsessing and I probably am so I need to lighten up a little

Thanks again for the reply.

Rich



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 03/13/2012 09:44 PM
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joanjps psych
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HI again Rich,

As I said, unstable. I said the last time some of the user files are missing, now have re-appeared. Still not getting that old error message, however, but at times the program gives strange dictation, seems to be taking on more RAM, and I have to let it settle out. And this is with microphone dictation. All of this when I stated to use the Sony transcriptions in Dragon.

Do you think Tech support will allow you to send your logs since you are getting nowhere, and my program seems to be floating?

Thanks,

Joan

 

Sorry, just discovered the unusable user files are not listed under manage user profile, but open user profile drop-down where they still are listed

Joan

 03/14/2012 12:27 PM
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wingclip
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Hi Joan, (just got up and read your post this morning),I'm not sure I follow what you're asking me about the Dragon Logs. What I meant about those logs was that they turned down my offer to send them to their tech support people that knew how, and could, read them.

In fact, this happened yesterday when I called them to try and find out how they were doing. The tech that answered, (John), was rather 'dry' about the whole thing and not very helpful, (unlike the first tech that took the initial call; Chris).

He seemed more concerned with repeating that they had not yet determined if this was a problem with the Dragon software. I tried to tell him that I was unconcerned with who was at fault and that the Dragon Logs may have helped to isolate the possibilities. In effect, they had the potential to indicate where to look faster and easier than the audio file they had collected from me.

But I could see I was wasting my time with him so I just left it alone. I can say that if there's someone, anyone, on this website that knows how to read these logs, (you perhaps?), I would be glad to send the logs to them.The significant thing about these particular logs is that they were collected immediately after a fresh install and 4 recorder tests only! This means that not only are they a small collection, but that they don't have any superfluous information that needs to be 'weeded out'. I'm sure you see that significance but I couldn't get "John" to understand that no matter how hard I tried.

So I sent Chris the detailed report of the procedures I followed in the uninstall/reinstall steps and told him to let me know if he wants the logs.

ABOUT YOUR Trouble: I don't know anything about your computer, (specs, cpu speed, memory and speed, etc), but I have my system running with the CPU & GPU overclocked and the memory is running at 1666MHz. I have 8gb's in a 2x4 config. It is possible, very possible, for you to have problems with most any DNS program if the memory you have starts showing a usage of 50% or more. As I said, I don't know about your system, but if it's something like a $600- $800 Desktop or Laptop by HP or Dell for instance, you very well may be pushing the memory to its edges.

If that's the case, adding memory is very easy to do. I also want to say that I get the same results when it comes to what is in the "Manage User Profiles" and in the "Open User Profiles" drop down list. My digital recorder only shows up in one of them. I forgot what I do to delete it, (I don't have Dragon opened right now), when I want to try a 'clean start' with the recorder but I now it's one of the 'Profile choices'.

So my point is that the way your profiles are showing up in the profile boxes is the same as mine. I don't know why, and I don't know if that's atypical. Is that one of your concerns?I certainly will let you know what Nuance comes up with IF they find a solution, (cross my fingers), and thanks for the help!

Rich



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 03/14/2012 12:38 PM
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joanjps psych
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Thanks Rich,

No, it is not the computer. The increased DNS errors and seemingly soaking RAM began after I started with the use of the Sony.  I will check the CPU. But in essence, the program is behaving differently.

Will be interested in what Tech support says

Joan

 03/14/2012 04:29 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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We highly recommend taking Nuance ratings with a grain of salt because they tend to exaggerate ratings for recorders and microphones that come bundled with their various flavors of NaturallySpeaking. Some of the best digital recorders (which Nuance bestows with lower ratings to) don't even require creating a separate digital recorder profile. We transcribe our Olympus DS-5000 recordings right over the top of our untrained microphone user profile. Considering the difficulties you're having with creating a digital recorder profile, it might be worth a shot with your Sony.

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 03/14/2012 06:13 PM
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wingclip
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Thank You Lunis,Unfortunately the Olympus DS-5000 recorder costs almost 4 times more than the Sony ICD – SX712. It seems to me that a $400-$500 recorder should make it very easy for you to transcribe on Dragon, KnowBrainer, or any other speech to text program. 

That said if I understand you correctly, are you're saying that I should push the "transcribe" button on the toolbar and then direct Dragon to the file while I am still in the microphone user profile?

You know, I've never tried to push the "transcribe" button at all. I've never gotten far enough to figure out what to do after I had set a profile for the recorder. So I'm going to try that after I do a little reading to see what they say to do after the user follows the directions as to how to create a profile for their recorder. 

I have a couple of things to do including reading that section so I'll check back to see if you have replied to my question regarding pushing the "transcribe" button before I actually execute that attempt.

Rich



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 03/14/2012 08:45 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Quote:
That said if I understand you correctly, are you're saying that I should push the "transcribe" button on the toolbar and then direct Dragon to the file while I am still in the microphone user profile?


That would be the hard way of doing it but yes. We assume that the software, that's included with your Sony recorder, includes an instant Transcribe button like the Olympus recorders and although we can all but guarantee that the quality won't be quite as good as digital recorders that feature DS2 algorithms, like the Olympus DS-2400, it still might be good enough. It really depends on the end-user’s vocal characteristics but many end-users are able to get away with transcribing recordings directly into a standard microphone profile. You should be able to test this theory in less time than it took us to explain it

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 03/14/2012 10:11 PM
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joanjps psych
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Lunis,

Sorry I misspelled you name in the last post.

Actuallly, I bought the Sony as it was rated by Dragon for best accuracy, and I purchased a model close to the one it had listed.

I will try putting the recorder transcription into the mic user directly as you suggested.

Thanks again,

Joan

 03/14/2012 10:47 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Scottish descendants, who are named after Peanuts column characters, by dyslectic fathers shouldn't be offended by someone misspells their name; especially when it's not included in NaturallySpeaking's Vocabulary  

Many NaturallySpeaking ratings are spot on but many more are way off the mark. Nuance typically overrates microphones and recorders that come bundled with NaturallySpeaking. Additionally, Nuance has no test labs so at best, their information comes from outside sources. We're not trying to get you to replace your recorder but the best NaturallySpeaking digital recorders are under the previous hyperlink and utilize Olympus DS2 algorithms. The average Nuance digital recorder recommendation produces about 25% more errors.

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 03/14/2012 10:56 PM
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joanjps psych
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Lunis,

Oh well, wish I had know about the ratings before, since I purchased my recorder separately and wanted the best.

If this doesn't get much better as I and DNS get used to it, I shall have to go down that road.

Thanks,

Joan

 03/15/2012 12:01 AM
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wingclip
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That may be my direction as well. Wow, 25% is quite a bit! I was getting about 99% accuracy with my wireless Plantronics USB 995. Unfortunately, I apparently made a mistake in the backup process when I completely uninstalled the DNS program earlier. It seems that I may have lost critical information that DNS needed so that I could have kept the same profile I had accumulated in the past year.

On the other hand, that profile was accumulated and built in Dragon Home 11.5 and I have read in several places now that restoring backed up profiles from a different version of DNS does not guarantee that you will actually retain the accuracy you had built in the version that you now have transferred them.

I'll do some more tests tomorrow but I'm likely to be rebuilding that profile. It did go kind of fast if I remember so it shouldn't take that long.

I'm going to try that transcription suggestion tomorrow, first thing when I startup DNS.



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 03/15/2012 09:46 AM
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Lunis Orcutt
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99% accuracy with any microphone is very good. If you're doing that well, you would only see marginal results with a high-end microphone; just food for thought....

Many Plantronics USB microphones are reasonably accurate. The biggest complaint we have with Plantronics is that the microphone capsule is so small that positioning becomes critical and you almost have to run the Audio Check every time you put it on your head to be certain that you have optimum settings. In other words, not nearly as much leeway as you would have with a larger microphone element. Plantronics microphones also tend to be a bit on the uncomfortable side but perhaps most importantly, lack proper noise filtering. Even in a quiet office you may notice occasional “timeouts” where some small sound, like a lip smack, gets through the microphone and you have to wait for the NaturallySpeaking Nothing But Words algorithm to filter it out. It's not so much an accuracy point of view as it is tolerance, comfort and noise filtering.


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 03/15/2012 12:58 PM
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wingclip
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Hi Folks, I just got in and I'm about to try those suggestions. But I read Chuck's post and you know Chuck? I've always had a serious suspicion that was the case with Nuance. They just never hit me as a "critical" company.

 So it doesn't surprise me but I wish I would have joined Knowbrainer sooner so I could find the stats on $100.00 - $140.00 recorders before I bought this one. It may not be too late so I'll need to read through some posts and see what's said on the subject of good recorders and DNS.

Rich



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 03/15/2012 12:59 PM
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wingclip
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Lunis, it's as if you were standing in the room next to me and using my 995 headset! You hit it smack on the head!  The Plantronics 995 USB is a good set and I got great results with it and Dragon, but... 

The head set is heavy and I only cover my left ear with it because the head muffs/cuffs, (if that's the term), block most of any sound outside. 

And I DO run an Audio check at the beginning of each session paying very close attention to the microphone placement. I found that if I 'swung' the mic up toward my nose in such a way that it was actually slightly closer to the bottom left side of my nostrils, the accuracy was considerably better than if by the left corner of my mouth.

When I played back the audio checks it was obvious that with it positioned near the nostrils it eliminated the "nasal" sound that is often heard in microphones of that kind.  The reason for that is obvious and as you said, the comfort of the headset is not that good. I'm typically using DNS about 3 to 4 hours at a time and I often take the headset off so I can get a break from the thing.

I'm going to start up dragon in about 10 or 15 minutes and I'll post what results I get.

Thanks

Oh, and as far as the oversensitivity or directional focus, I honestly can say that though I do turn down the TV while I'm on DNS, I often walk to another room where the TV volumes are normal and I don't experience that 'bleed-over' effect you mentioned. It does seem to stay with me and ignore anything that isn't as loud as my voice.



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 03/15/2012 04:23 PM
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wingclip
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Hi folks,

Well the tests are in! I apparently made this way more complicated than I should have. I read every single word that Nuance had to say about transcribing and then I followed that with every word that Sony had to say when using their software "Sound Organizer".

Finally, and with great duress, I dragged and dropped and unconverted MP3 file to the "transcribe button" that was on the Dragon toolbar. I happened to have DragonPad open at the time and immediately every word of that 5 min. recording began appearing on the document.

Not only that, but the accuracy was incredible. With the exception of two or three words, (not necessarily Dragon's fault but my denunciations), Dragon faithfully knocked it out and I Am Impressed.
Thank you all.

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 03/15/2012 08:12 AM
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Chucker
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Joan & wingclip,

I concur with Lunis 100%.

Before ScanSoft/Nuance acquired the speech recognition assets oh Lernout & Hauspie (L&H) and before I left in 2002, I was responsible for primarily microphone testing, but also played a certain role and wore at least one hat as part of the hardware testing group.

Back then hardware testing was done very comprehensively with some very sophisticated hardware and software. Unfortunately, Nuance has divested themselves of all of the sophisticated equipment and software that was used to test hardware. Their hardware testing is worse than poor, it's mediocre at best. You would get more reliable results spitting into a 90 mph wind.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, We make it better!

"Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count." Albert Einstein



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 03/13/2012 07:11 PM
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wingclip
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Hi Joan, I presently have the same EXACT problem, (Brand New Sony ICD SX712), and right now the DNS Tech Support is suppose to be studying my 22 min, pristine, recorded file. I spent almost 1.5 hours with the tech last Thursday about all this.

Then, this morning, I completely uninstalled DNS from the computer, (INCLUDING the user profiles- backed them up to an external HD), and then even installed a program that targeted any and all files that had anything to do with Nuance and Dragon.

Please keep in mind that I've had DNS Home 11.5 for almost a year before I got Premium, (about 2 weeks ago), and both programs worked outstandingly with my Plantronics 995 wireless USB Headset.I then did a meticulous reinstallation of the DNS Premium 11.5 and then made 4 test recordings each about 6 minutes long.

I tried and tried to get Dragon to accept these pristine recordings but NO GO! I used the Sony Sound Organizer that has a converter explicitly for Dragon and I also tried to get Dragon to accept 'unconverted' mp3 files as well.In addition, I must point out that I installed several different on-line HD Voice recording software programs in an attempt to see if Dragon would accept any of those tests!

Oh, and let's not forget that I just bought that brand new Sony recorder but because I wanted to eliminate any possibilities that the recorder was faulty, I returned it and ordered another one, (same model), which was also rejected by Dragon.

Also, (yes, I know), I did these tests with an external headset, (came with DNS Premium), plugged into the mic-in port of the recorder. I also tried without the headset. Ok, so I'm sure you get the picture. This is not an easy problem as far as the Nuance techs see it. They turned down my offer to send them the Dragon Logs and Dragon Setup Logs, (they said they're not to that point yet), when I spoke to them this morning.

I hope they figure this out and if/when they do, I'll post it or email the solution to you. As for your backup question, I used both but it really doesn't seem to matter much. I prefer to run the "Backup" that is offered by Dragon but I still wind up doing a manual backup to my external drive like I did when I did the complete uninstall.Unfortunately, I forgot that this version has an "Export" option that I didn't use before the uninstall.

I've just read some info that leaves me to think I should have. Then I would use the "Import" option to re-merge my backed up Profiles into the new installation. I may try that anyway because my old, 'pre-new installed' profile had many months of training and my accuracy rate was like 99%.

Sorry I can't be more help but maybe the techs will contact me soon with the solution... I hope.Rich



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 03/14/2012 07:32 PM
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joanjps psych
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Luis,

My recorder was purchased separately. There is a program to add a Sony user file, but I also did a generic recorder file as well. Neither one works, and this is where  I get the "error" message to upgrade. The file that does work is the restored one  I did  put the recorder training on top of my microphone user profile, despite what Tech support  and it works althoughit does not respond to my commands.

Since I did the recorder transcriptions, the program is behaving differently. It works fine for awhile, then types commands. This occurs  with the microphone.

I will continue to watch how the program is behaving to get a better idea as to what is going on.

Rich,

Does you transcription tool bar indicate the user profile it will use? I am not sure from your last message what you are going to do. Seems you are in a different place than I am at this point.

Thanks,

Joan

 03/15/2012 06:11 PM
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wingclip
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Well, just an FYI, (first test results),

I have to say that I was truly impressed with the accuracy of DNS when I transcribed my second, 5 minute recording that I made using the built-in mics of the recorders! (the first was with the Headset plugged into the Mic/headphones jack of the recorder).

I Saved the file and then ran one copy through the Sony Sound Organizers "Convert for Dragon" option, (converts the recording from its original MP3 file to a .WAV file.

I then dragged and dropped the 'Converted' Version to the Transcribe button on the DNS tool bar. After it transcribed to DragonPad, I did the same with the unconverted version. Results:

The Converted Version, (WAV), got words wrong.

The Unconverted Version, (MP3), got 2 words wrong.

Only one of the 2 words that were wrong were the same in both versions. It's a little soon to tell, but maybe I shouldn't use that converter.

 All in all, I'd say that's pretty good considering that I just installed DNS Premium 11.5 yesterday and have only had that much time to train it. As I said, I didn't succeed in replacing my established Profile files from the preveious DNS Home 11.5.

Would you say that's a pretty good first impression, Lunis?

Rich



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 03/15/2012 08:26 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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All things considered, we would say that's a great 1st impression and we probably shouldn't try to upset the apple cart or even take any of our previous advice .

Interestingly enough, the condenser microphones that are built into most digital recorders are actually quite good. It only costs about $2.50 to build a decent condenser microphone (minus the casing) for speech recognition. It's when you get into music that you need more of a flat frequency response.

Parting note: Just like any 2 microphones don't work the same way with different voices, the same applies to digital recorders. In 1998 we watched Larry Allen demonstrate a $20 microphone that has sense been discontinued. His accuracy was nothing short of impressive. We couldn't pass the Audio Setup Wizard with that microphone and recommended against using it but every time Larry picked it up, it turned into a Stradivarius. Bottom line: Stick with what works.


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 03/15/2012 08:39 PM
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wingclip
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Thank you Lunis,

Your advice and the help from the other's on this forum were invaluable and I truly appreciate it. As you had pointed out earlier, a lot depends on the user's voice and speech habits. I think that this is particularly true when it comes to a relatively low cost Speech to Text program like Dragon.

I'm just going to keep going along this way and I'm also going to be reading many of the helpful post in KnowBrainer as many times each week as the opportunities permit.

Thanks Again!

Joan, I wish I could say something to help your particular case. I know that you helped mine.

Rich



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 03/15/2012 10:19 PM
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joanjps psych
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Hi Rich,

I am glad your agony is over. But got some questions.

I would like to improve the accuracy of my transcriptions, right now a disincentive for me to use largely on the execution of commands.

I did do my original training with an Mp3, the format  when I same my recordings.

Are are the commands working for you as well? Did you create a new user profile, or use the "add to dictation...." method?

Thanks,

Joan

 03/16/2012 10:45 AM
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wingclip
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HI Joan,

First let me point out that the command abilty while in the transcribing mode is 'turned off' through the Transcribe Options panel by default. DNS logic for this is that they recommend to NOT allow the commands option to work because if, during the transcription operation, DNS missunderstands something you said for "Delet ALL", well then, that's what it's going to do.

 I found that, when set to their 'recommended mode' for commands, DNS will not "Delete Last Word", or "All Caps", etc. It will do things like "Quote That", or "scratch That". In fact, they give a list of things that DNS will and won't do under those transcribing options. In order to get to those transcription options, I had to click on the "Transcribe" Button on the DNS Tool bar and then click on "Advance".

 I think that may be why you can't train the commands in the Transcriptions. Now, as far as my profiles go, I never could get DNS to accept a new Recording Profile. That's why I called their Tech Support in the first place.

What I did was make a recodring and saved it to a folder on my desktop. It doesn't really matter where you save it but it works better than transcribing it directly from the recrder. My USB Mic Profile was loaded at the time but I don't think it matters unless, of course, you have successfully made a recorder profile. Then I suppose you would want to have that profile loaded.

Then I went to "Tools" and opened a DragonPad document. After that I opened the folder that I saved the recording in and I dragged it to the "Transcribe" button on the tool bar and 'Dropped' it there, (DNS said I could do that). Then a box opened and started immediately transcribing to that DragoPad, (DON'T touch the mouse or keyboard while it's running).

The next time I did it the same way and when I dropped the file in Transcribe. A box opened and said it was ready and I should click once on the document I wanted it to transcribe to. So I did and it started transcribing.

I also then tried to see what happened if I didn't D&D a recording file to Transcribe but instead, just pushed the 'Transcribe' button. When I did, that's when the Transcribe Options opened and then you just follow the wizard as it asks you what file you want to transcrbe and on what kind of doc, etc.

I should say that I tried using the Transcribe button in the Sony Sound Organizer and got lost trying to understand why it would start.

Does that help?



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 03/16/2012 11:19 AM
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joanjps psych
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Thanks.

I had done virtually all those steps, except I used Word as the application, but did see a very good transciption in DragonPad.

Knowing that there is a box to allow commands is very helpful!

Glad we got to where needed. Have good transcribing, and if you run into problems again, you can check back with me

Joan

 03/16/2012 12:56 PM
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wingclip
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Outstanding Joan! It appears that we both have at least one "alternate" method working for us. I too noticed that DragonPad seemed to collect the transcription better.

Also, I mentioned that I found the unconverted version to be more accurate but then a few more tests last night seemed to show the opposite. On the other hand, it could be because I ran the transcription on DragonPad three or four times and it did improve a little as it reran the same transcription.

But those results are in no way final and not at all "scientific". The fact is that by that point I was pretty tired and I lost track of some of the details. But as time goes and Dragon learns more and more, (as it already seems to be doing at an incredible rate), I'll be able to pin down the best way to go about transcribing recordings.

But right now I can't complain and the fact that the DNS technical support people have not yet contacted me with their results tells me that this alternative to making a recording profile specifically for the recorder is going to be the way I'll have to do things.
Rich

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 03/16/2012 02:07 PM
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joanjps psych
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Thanks Rich for getting back so soon

Hopefully, one last question. What is an "unconverted" file?

Joan

 03/16/2012 03:55 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Unconverted means leaving the recording in its native format. Utilizing an unconverted or converted file shouldn't make any difference unless the conversion process lowers the sampling rate.

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 03/16/2012 08:02 PM
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wingclip
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Hi Joan, sorry, I just got back.

What Lunis said is pretty much it. The Sony recorder I have gives me two file extensions to work with. The one I use for Dragon is an MP3 file extension. The Sony Sound Organizer converts the MP3 file to a Wav file. The MP3 file is compressed file, (by how much I don't know), and in addition it cuts out the highest and lowest most frequencies.

Generally speaking, the human hearing can only handle 20 Hz to 20 kHz. My recorder handles 15 Hz to 16 kHz so essentially, the MP3 file is "clipping" my recording's frequencies to whatever is typical for MP3 files. On the other hand, wav file extension's are uncompressed sound files. And because they don't "clip" any of the frequencies they are actually more accurate, (or considered so).

So I guess the Sound Organizer wants to get as accurate as possible but really it's just wasting time and space. Because whatever was clipped out in the way of frequencies on the MP3 original file is gone for good. Therefore, converting the MP3 to a wav file would seem pretty pointless in these cases.

Add to that the fact that Dragon can accept MP3, WAV, WMA, PCM, etc. it seems to be nothing more than a superfluous exercise. The other format that my recorder can handle is PCM. It's listed on my recorder as an "LPCM", (I don't know what the "L" is for but it saves as a wav I think), which according to Sony, is best used for recording music with the built-in microphones.

I have the recorder set for "Voice Notes", (Sony gives various pre-set recording options they call "Scenes", and I have it set for 320 kbps which is the highest quality my recorder can handle an MP3.

I don't know too much about LPCM but they have it set to do a maximum of 48 kbps at a 16 bit rate in Mono. Early in the game when I was trying to get the Dragon to accept the recorder profile, I tried that setting which can only be pulled up when you're in the "Music Scene". Apparently that format permits a lot of extra sound to come through and may even change the way the microphones collect it and it didn't work very well.

Hope that answered it.



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 03/16/2012 08:19 PM
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joanjps psych
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Thanks Rich

A very technical response, but as I mentioned previously, I did use an MP3 format and didn't convert to .wav, as it had already worked.

Good luck!

 03/22/2012 10:58 PM
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wingclip
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Hi folks,

Well I have to say that the tech support people at Nuance really came through! As I had mentioned earlier in this post, they had me send them an MP3 recording when I had contacted them about having trouble getting the Dragon to build a profile for my recorder. Well, it took about a week but they did it.

About three days ago I got an e-mail from them telling me to download a User Profile folder that they apparently worked with in such a way that Dragon accepted it. They told me to simply put it in the "user's profile" and then whenever I want to transcribe use that profile.

So I did that and I put it to the test and I was impressed. Not only did the whole thing work very well with my headset connected to the recorder, but it did just as good when I use the built-in microphones.

So I give kudos to the tech support people at Nuance! Great job!
Rich

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 03/23/2012 10:58 AM
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joanjps psych
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Hi Rich,

Thanks for the update.

Would you say that using the customized user profile sent by Nuance is significantly better than the method you used last week? Is is worthy pursuing ?

Thanks,

Joan

 03/23/2012 11:31 AM
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wingclip
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Hi Joan, you're welcome.

I am actually curios about that myself. The problem is that so far, neither has made enough mistakes for me to focus the results any better. In order for me to know or at least have a better idea, I need to take the time to test the two with longer transcriptions.

As it is, I don't know if there are any real advantages to using one over the other if, and only if, they both give me the same reasonable accuracy within on or two mistakes.

Last night I transcribed 540 words using the new profile and aside from my annunciation errors, it got 3 words wrong.

Maybe Lunis or Chuck can tell us if there would be any more of an advantage for me to use the new Nuance-prepared profile or the Mic profile that I used recently.

Rich



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