Having worked with version 9.0 for the last few weeks IM completely underwhelmed with recognition accuracy.  This is said despite a major upgrade in my hardware as well as my headset.  I spend a whole lot more time correcting than I ever did.  Although I did transfer all of my macro commands and vocabulary text, I load my single user speech files each time (I never had to do that with the previous versions), I use a registry cleaner and disk defragmenter every day after dictation, I still get a lot of recognition errors.  I do try to speak in a monotone with clear pronunciation and proper position of the mouthpiece on this RadioShack/Sennheiser headset.  Patients names and drug names that used to be readily recalled, have to be repeatedly corrected and when I tried to save files using the patient's name, it is frequently incorrect although I have previously corrected it in the main body of my text dictation.  In previous versions, when I corrected the patient's name or the drug name the next time it was used it was always recognized.  It is only about 30% recognized with this newer version.  I don't think the same people that worked on the previous versions had anything to do with the newer versions in my humble opinion.  They may have improved some features but not the features that matter the most to me.  My whole mindset with each subsequent upgrade has been to reduce my dictation time and increase my accuracy but that has fallen short thus far.  Those who are contemplating upgrading might want to rethink that.  Maybe I am a little harsh but hey, that's my take.
My next step is to reinstall version 8.1 and try it with my new hardware. Now, I need to find the time to do that. Do I need to completely remove version 9.0 before using version 8.1?
Ray

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray-

 Sorry to hear about the bad experience you've been having with version 9.  It's been interesting to read the various posts since it came out.  Most, it seems, have liked it, but a few have had a terrible time, particularly with installation problems, software conflicts, etc.

 My own experience, also using it in a medical context, has been extremely positive - I've noted a significant improvement in accuracy.  I've also helped 3 or 4 colleagues upgrade to version 9 and they, too, have been happy.

Your equipment seems good - in fact better than mine.  I don't suppose you upgraded your version 8 files when you made the jump to 9?  Most of the "experts" seem to warn about not doing this.  Other than saving user files, vocabularies and commands outside of Dragon before doing the Version 8 uninstall, I started a fresh user in version 9 and later imported my old vocabulary and commands.    Have you tried doing a "Repair" with the install disks?  I hate to see you give up on version 9 given the results that others (myself included) have had.

Best of luck.

 Jon

-------------------------

Jon Wahrenberger, MD
Speech Recognition Solutions
www.speechrecsolutions.com

 

I had the exact same experience. Upgraded to hardware similar to yours -- Core 2 Due E 6600, 3 gigs RAM, 80 GB SATA II HD, Plantronics DSP550, WinXP, DNS 9 Medical -- and had a marked decrease in accuracy. I created and trained a new user in DNS 9.0. I made the mistake of upgrading computer, microphone and DNS at the exact same time. I don't know which is the culprit.

I too am contemplating a downgrade back to 8.1 Medical, with which I had excellent results.

Please let me know the outcome if you go back to DNS 8. I suspect my problem is related to my new microphone.

 JT

JT,

I haven't "bailed" yet but I still marvel at the persistent errors and need for re-training in this Ver 9.1 - I did "patch" as recommended and I also checked the box to permit training (I've forgotten the details at this moment. I'm not at the office). Some names and drugs are rarely "locked in" like my previous ver 8.1. I keep plugging away, mainly because I keep reasoning that this latest version with my phenomenally complex PC MUST be the best I can do!  Why not???  I haven't tried all the permutations yet - too lazy - too busy - etc. (Ver 8 with new PC and new headset; old headset and USB pod with new PC and ver 9.1, etc).

Ray

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray:  Are you by any chance dictating into Word?  If not, into what are you dictating?  Dragon Pad?


-------------------------

Dana Joan - Vero Beach, FL  - 

Dragon NaturallySpeaking Medical, Version 10.1; General Medical Large Vocabulary; Windows 7 Ultimate (on desktop); Windows XP Professional SR 3 (on laptop) and Sennheiser MD 431 II mic with the Andrea USB pod on both computers; LAPTOP: HP Compaq 8710p; Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00 GHz 2.00 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM; DESKTOP: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66 GHz 2.67 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM.

I dictate into Microsoft WordPad not Microsoft Word.  There appears to be more functionality with WordPad then there is with DragonPad.any thoughts or suggestions about this?

Ray 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray - I was wondering if you were having a "Normal.dot" problem - but if you're not using Word, that's not an issue.  I would suggest trying DragonPad - just to compare your accuracy; I get much better accuracy using the Dictation Box - than anything else.

I'd also try a repair, and then try a new User.  My accuracy with V. 9 Pro (Medical) is nearly 100% - there must be a reason why you are not attaining this, also.

-------------------------

Dana Joan - Vero Beach, FL  - 

Dragon NaturallySpeaking Medical, Version 10.1; General Medical Large Vocabulary; Windows 7 Ultimate (on desktop); Windows XP Professional SR 3 (on laptop) and Sennheiser MD 431 II mic with the Andrea USB pod on both computers; LAPTOP: HP Compaq 8710p; Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00 GHz 2.00 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM; DESKTOP: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66 GHz 2.67 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM.

Dana, I did use the "repair NS" with my KB 2006 and it didn't seem to "upgrade" the functionality.  I guess I will try the DragonPad once more to compare.   I agree that the "dictation box" is useful when I'm surfing but I was trying the avoid extra steps using it while dictating patient visits.  (open dictation box and transfer commands)

Ray 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

did you run voc tools. I think improves accuracy. Just say start voc tools and add folders with your documents.

Yes, I did run voc tools and I thought it might have helped a little initially, but not now.  I'll try it again.  Perhaps my reg. cleaner (I use both Ccleaner and JVPower tools) did wipe an important speech file but I get no error messages. I'll re-install from the MS Knowledge base as suggested, anyway.  I'll be back in the office Mon.  (can't live there......). I'm also going  to experiment with my older headset (Andreas 600 ANC with the newer USB Parrott VXI pod) as I"m getting suspicious that my new RadioShack (KB) headset is somehow linked to the poor recognition. I don't have as many delays with paper shuffling with the RS vs the Andreas but I do get a freeze up every day or so and I never had a freeze up with Ver 8.1 with my previous PC. I've tried to place the mouthpiece down next to my chin instead of to the side of my mouth and that seems to help but never consistently.   I ran the acoustic optimizer also.  All this started with the new PC and the Ver 9.0 so I'm dealing with compounding variables. I just haven't had time to focus on trying out each system (older PC with the 8.1 sits in the corner grinning at me......) with each headset and each USB pod (Andreas vs VXI USB pods).

Ray  (even that simple single syllable word is often heard as "ready"

 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

I also keep the Radio Shack mic farther and lower than usual, mainly to keep my breath from creating background whooshing. I have had better performance with it than with the Andrea mics. 

-------------------------
PORTUGUESEINTERPRETER.COM

Well, I've had several more weeks to practice and use the 9.1 with my speedy PC, but I'm still frustrated. I agree that it is best to keep the mouthpiece of the KB/RS mic low and away  as it is quite sensitive. When I do the mic volume setup I speak very loudly then when I do the accuracy setup I speak normally (after a 4-5 sec pause so it listens to silence at the beginning). I get 21-25 readings nearly always (I realize that these numbers aren't gospel but I don't get any 14-15 readings ever). 

If I can remember to use the "dictation box" it has worked very well for me. I usually just start dictating without the "box" and accept a few errors along the way.  The "box" does permit more accurate formating, I will say. 

Regarding recognition mistakes:  It is typical to have serious recognition errors and I rarely got so many with 8.1.  Also, sometimes when I finish a sentence and say "go to sleep" it doesn't hear me and the mic is still "live".  In several instances it is frozen in the on position and I have to re-boot. NEVER had to do that with 8.1. After such a session I sometime note the target box shows "oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah" and I NEVER say this phrase.  It's as though it has a mind of its own.(Is someone from L&H hiding in the program and taunting Nuance?  ;> Further, THE most frustrating thing about this 9.0 is the correction process, or rather major deficiencies in the correction process.  If it does hear and record something incorrectly, (esp a drug or person's name) previously with 7.3 and 8.1 versions, once I corrected it IT ALWAYS remembered the corrections for any subsequent need to speak the same name or phrase. Not so with 9.0.  (For example, today  I said "Nancy Dunnigan", correct that, then spelled out <Nancy Dunigan>  trained it and saved it. The very next time the spelling was  incorrect again <Nancy Dunnigan>. Drugs are the same way.  I used to brag about the way it use to always get the correct spelling after 1 correction and training.   If I switch windows to something other than WordPad  such as the save box/ "save as" it almost never remembers the previous correct spelling as I trained it in the body of the dictation (either in WordPad or Word). So I have to repeat the training. The next time she comes in, same ol' thing.  Some names CANNOT be trained correctly whether it is first and last names together or each name separately.  Not so with previous versions.   Why oh why did Nuance mess up some perfectly good algorithms?????  I keep threatening to remove it and try my old 8.1 (only had it 6-8 weeks when 9.0 came along) on my new core 2 duo machine, but I just haven't had the time to do this so I keep plugging away hoping things will get better!  Sure wish I knew what I was doing wrong.  I'm not a novice with this stuff, but I'm beginning to feel like one.  It appears that the original engineers were on to something then a new batch came along and un-did everything that worked!!  Sorry to vent my frustrations, but I would hope to spare others my grief.  Newer ain't necessarily a lot better. It may be better for some in some areas (like running a business and sending emails), but for medical dictation with strange-sounding names, diagnoses, meds, etc definitely not as good as 8.1.  I never purchased a Medical product, just the Pro. I created my own vocabulary and transferred it. MyCmds.dat and .txt files did come over, but new stuff just doesn't show up readily)

Ray 

(Not dictating with DNS at home)


-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray - A couple of thoughts.  Do you have the box checked in front of "Automatically add words to vocabulary?"  (Tools/Options/Correction).  Since Lunis recommended that this be left unchecked, I was having the same problems as you are because the newly trained words are NOT being automatically added to the vocabulary.  Now what I have to do is to add the words myself, manually, then click NaturallySpeaking/Save User Files - in the middle of a session - in order to get DNS to recognize those new words next time I dictate them.  If you are using KnowBrainer - and you said "Tweak My Computer," then that box is UNCHECKED - so you need to go through the manual process of saving new words to your vocabulary OR check that box and have any, old, word be automatically saved to your vocaabulary.

If I'm not mistaken - this is a change under V. 9.  

By the way - have you upgraded your Version 9 with the patch?  That may take care of the "Yeah, yeah, yeah" problem.

Let us hear how you do!

 

-------------------------

Dana Joan - Vero Beach, FL  - 

Dragon NaturallySpeaking Medical, Version 10.1; General Medical Large Vocabulary; Windows 7 Ultimate (on desktop); Windows XP Professional SR 3 (on laptop) and Sennheiser MD 431 II mic with the Andrea USB pod on both computers; LAPTOP: HP Compaq 8710p; Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00 GHz 2.00 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM; DESKTOP: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66 GHz 2.67 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM.

Dana,  thanks for your input.  I am using version 9.00.100.024.  When I go to the nuance website, the only current patch for version 9.0 is the Citrix client update (audio patch) dated 10/27/06.otherwise the website lists service pack one dated 5/11/2005 for 8.0 users (TIB 5090).  I did check the automatically add words to vocabulary as you recommended.  I wish that the no-brainer command would have by default left that box checked.  I think that is a bug and should be fixed in future versions.  (Mark and Lunis, are you listening?).  I will let you know what happens with my dictations today.  I am assuming that I don't have to do anything manually now that the box is checked?

if you are aware of a patch that I have not located, please provide the link.

Thanks again for your help, Ray 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray - Try this: 

http://knowledgebase.nuance.com/view.asp?tnID=6820&sQuery=

I installed it - hasn't hurt anything.......yet!  :-)

 

-------------------------

Dana Joan - Vero Beach, FL  - 

Dragon NaturallySpeaking Medical, Version 10.1; General Medical Large Vocabulary; Windows 7 Ultimate (on desktop); Windows XP Professional SR 3 (on laptop) and Sennheiser MD 431 II mic with the Andrea USB pod on both computers; LAPTOP: HP Compaq 8710p; Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00 GHz 2.00 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM; DESKTOP: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66 GHz 2.67 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM.

Dana, I installed it as you suggested.  It hasn't frozen up but on one occasion when I thought I gave it the command to sleep, I went back later and there was still the "oh yeah yeah yeah  yeah" stuff.  What in the world is that.  I swear there are gremlins in the software!  One of the most helpful recommendations was to check the box in the options  "automatically add words to vocabulary".  Why in the world the no-brainer 2006 unchecked it by default is beyond me. I don't think I would have ever figured that out if it wasn't pointed out to me.

(Note the spelling of no-brainer which I have trained repeatedly in the past and it just won't take.  Now that's a real kick in the you know what.  I'm going to try to train it once again.)

Ray 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray - Try going to "no-brainer" in Words/View/Edit - then select Properties on the lower right hand column.  Under Properties, check, "Use Alternate Written Form" and then type in:  KnowBrainer.  I know it doesn't look like you can type in that field - because it has a drop-down arrow - but, trust me, you can!  I use this whenever I have problems.  For example - I couldn't get M.D. to print as:  MD - so I went to M.D. -  Properties - and checked the "Use alternate written form" box and typed in MD - and now - every time - I get the correct "written form." 

This is also how to change the numbers (one, two, three, etc.) to 1, 2, 3 - just tell DNS to use the alternate form: 1, 2, 3.   Of course, then you ALWAYS get 1, 2, 3 - even at the beginning of a sentence when you REALLY want: One, Two, or Three.  But - doing medical dictation - there are more times I need 1, 2, 3 rather than one, two, three - so the few times I need one, two, or three, I just say: "Format that spelled out" - and it changes!

Hope this helps! 

-------------------------

Dana Joan - Vero Beach, FL  - 

Dragon NaturallySpeaking Medical, Version 10.1; General Medical Large Vocabulary; Windows 7 Ultimate (on desktop); Windows XP Professional SR 3 (on laptop) and Sennheiser MD 431 II mic with the Andrea USB pod on both computers; LAPTOP: HP Compaq 8710p; Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00 GHz 2.00 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM; DESKTOP: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66 GHz 2.67 GHz; 2.00 GB RAM.

Ray

Noted that you are doing a reg clean. Sometimes the reg cleaner will affect dragon.  There is a reg entry dll file that it can eat. SAPI.dll.  There is a fix for it on Nuance support. Just a thought in this area. I have noted myself much better performance and accuracy of version 9.  Sorry it is giving you so much difficulty

 zane

-------------------------

Zane,

HP 5100 / dual 7200 RPM Hard Drives / 2 gig 533 Ram / Intel 3.2 Ghz processor / 800 Mhz FSB / XP Pro / DNS 9.5 Pro / KB 2006 Rev E with vocabs / KB Hybrid Plantronics CS55 headset & USB pod.

I was unable to locate the fix for the possible registry deletion of SAPI.DLL on the nuance website using their search. Frankly, I find nuance a bit obscure. They are aptly namedin my opinion. Now this knowbrainer phorum, that's another story. Thanks for any help you may provide. One of my biggest bugs is that after dictating the text and saying "correct that" then in the same session (headset not removed and replaced) I have to correct it again. If its a patients name it sometimes is misspelled again when I repeat the name and put it in the "save as" box. It's just as though it doesn't take from one window to the next. It does not appear any better when I save user files and boot up again.(even my name has to be repeated and corrected!)

Ray

(edited from original text) 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

Ray 

The link to the sapi or speech dll is below.  I zapped it out of my registry with a cleaner. That's how I know about it.

 http://knowledgebase.nuance.com/view.asp?tnID=5178&sQuery=sapi

zane

-------------------------

Zane,

HP 5100 / dual 7200 RPM Hard Drives / 2 gig 533 Ram / Intel 3.2 Ghz processor / 800 Mhz FSB / XP Pro / DNS 9.5 Pro / KB 2006 Rev E with vocabs / KB Hybrid Plantronics CS55 headset & USB pod.

I'm wondering which registry cleaner you people used that stole the dll?

Louise

The reg cleaner I used was ccleaner. Free little program that has some good features.  I also use overwrite with index washer. So when the file was gone ---- it was really gone.

 zane

-------------------------

Zane,

HP 5100 / dual 7200 RPM Hard Drives / 2 gig 533 Ram / Intel 3.2 Ghz processor / 800 Mhz FSB / XP Pro / DNS 9.5 Pro / KB 2006 Rev E with vocabs / KB Hybrid Plantronics CS55 headset & USB pod.

 I would not be put off with using the ccleaner program.  It is really quite good and I do not think it has anything to do with deficits in the software either KnowBrainer or DNS itself.  Let's face it, there are bugs in the no-brainer and DNS programs that have not been worked out yet.  I cannot imagine any of my programs running more efficiently with an extra 12-50 MB of registry and temporary file entries every time I get on my computer.  A simple right-click of my mouse on the recycle can activates the program and it takes less than 15 seconds to load the files for cleanup.  It's free and you will find it indispensable along with your disk defragmenter.  I use the disk keeper professional version.  I also have JT power tools and it run that periodically as well because it cleans up things that th Ccleaner doesn't catch.  (Yes, I do believe in donations for programs that I regularly use so I did donate to the author of Ccleaner).

Ray 

-------------------------

Ray - Greensboro, NC

Dell Dimension 9200/Core 2 Duo E6600/2 GB RAM/WDHD10K/WinXP Pro/DNS Pro 9.0/KB2006/RS cardioid headset/Years of DNS: since 1997 

I agree with you.  I am very disappointed in version 9 and on several occasions have considered giving it up completely.  Some of the attempted recognition is simply awful with mistakes in most sentences.  Furthermore it is much slower than version 8.1.

What I am also very disappointed in is that it is so buggy.  This product seems more like a beta version than a final release.  It frequently crashes or locks up, it inserts random full stops (periods) all over the place and the dictation box simply doesn't work properly. 

I have contacted my supplier on several occasions and theyrecommend that I provide them with the copy of the log file that they promised to to send to nuance.  I have done this on three occasions and have never heard from nuance.  That is also pathetic.

 In the past when I used to version 8.1 many patients were quite impressed.  With version 9 most patients who watch me do it usually wind up laughing and ask me why waste my time.

 I think version 9 urgently needs a significant patch.  I also think Nuance needs to look at itself and focus on quality.  I recently also bought PaperPort pro 11 from Nuance and that is definitely a beta quality.  It is totally unstable and only works on tiny documents.  It also frequently locks up and crashes.  At this point I feel very wary about buying anything more from new on unless they do something serious with regard to their quality control.

I hope someone a nuance reads these messages.

 Simon