I have an almost brand new Dell laptop with Windows XP Professional and IE 7.x (latest version). I had the problem I'll describe when I had NS 9 Preferred, and I still have the problem now with NS 9.5 Professional.

The problem is (with or without AA turned on), when I say something like "logout" to click a link called logout, it will follow the link, but the little red or green arrow indicating which link is being followed does not appear.  Also, if I say something that can be matched to several links on the page, or if I say "click link", the little numbered arrows do not appear.

 INSTEAD, where I would normally see these graphics, I see little transparent boxes with alt-text in them (much like you would see on a web page if the graphic were missing and all that was left to see was the placeholder with the alt-text). 

 I have gone back and forth with tech support, and they had no suggestions (in fact they acted stupid, like they couldn't understand what I was having a problem with, even with the attached screenshot, which I think is pretty clear.) 

 I am dead in my tracks with this one...any suggestions???

small_screenshot.gif  (15 KB)

joycek,

Fortunately, this is an easy problem to solve.  Of course Nuance technical support will have difficulty with this one because the problem is not with DNS, it's with the Internet Explorer, and it doesn't matter which version of IE you have.

Do the following:

1.  After you open IE 7, click on the Tools menu and select Internet Options.

2.  Click on the Security tab, then click on "Trusted sites".

3.  There is a button labeled "Sites".  Click on it.

4.  You will observe several things in the ensuing dialog box.  The first thing to do is to make sure that the checkbox for "Require server verification (https for all sites in the zone" is unselected (i.e., remove the checkmark if it is there).

5.  The website that you are attempting to show that text links (numbered links) for, or in which you are attempting to click on one of the controls (red up arrow), should show in the text box for "Add this website to your zone:".  Click on the Add button so that this website gets added to your trusted sites.

6.  Click the Close button, and close out the rest of the dialogs.

Note that you may have to exit and reopen IE 7 for this change to take effect.  However, this will rectify the problem.

The reason why the little graphic link numbers and the red up arrow don't show in some websites is because your Internet security protocols are blocking them (Trusted sites).  If the URL address is not listed in your trusted sites list, the problem that you're having is what results.

Again, don't blame it on DNS because it is not DNS's problem.  If you still can't get it to work properly, go back using the above procedures and see if the website URL has been added to your Trusted sites.  One other thing to take into consideration is the level of security you have set.  If you set the security to high, you will have to readjust it until this procedure works.

Chuck Runquist
Owner, GEMCCON - The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training

If you hear the sound of hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.
Occam's Razor (Law of Parsimony)

Come on Chucker, this is DNS's problem. We love you to death, but as you helped develop DNS it is a wonder that DNS has any features at all

While DNS would not be able to change the setting without setting up its own administrator account on the system (thus the defeating Windows security), it can pop up a text box/window explaining what it can't do, and an option to open a help file explaining the solution to the problem.

 DNS is pretty useless for most of us without application compatibility.  It is something that they need to work on.

Ianmillis,

This is not an issue of compatibility.  Even though the graphics don't display under these conditions, the functionality is still there.  That is, if you look at the text replacements for the graphics (gif files which are embedded in DNS) you can always say "Choose 1" etc. and if you select an option by voice that involves the use of the up arrow, it executes.

In addition, I was not responsible for the development portion of DNS relative to this particular aspect.  I was responsible for the SDK, which is a different can of worms.  The aspects of DNS that affect this functionality were developed by a whole another group of programmers, even though I worked with them.  Each programmer for DNS is responsible for his or her own code.

Let's take a look at the history of IE.  Back in the days between 1997 and 2002, Internet Explorer was is subject to as many security risks as was the case beginning with IE 6.  Earlier versions of DNS didn't have a problem with links graphics because the security settings in IE 4 and IE 5 weren't as concerned with malicious scripts (Malware).  However, after I left L&H at the end of 2001, I went to work for Trend Micro, and subsequently Finjan.  My function that these two companies was to work on the development of security software.  During the course of time that I was associated with each of these companies more and more sophisticated VBscripts and JavaScripts were being developed by hackers and embedded in images.  As these types of malicious scripts grow in number and sophistication, companies like Trend Micro and Finjan were developing means of trapping and eliminating these issues.  In addition, Microsoft began becoming more sensitive to these types of issues, with the consequent result that the security settings in IE 6 and IE 7 have become more sophisticated.  While I was working at Finjan and I learned how hackers can embed VBscripts and JavaScripts that can literally take over your system.  Therefore, adding the Trusted sites option to the security settings in IE 6 and IE 7 generally prevent graphics and images from being displayed if the corresponding URL is not listed in the Trusted Sites listing.

Not all websites require these options to be set manually.  Some are already listed as trusted sites by Microsoft and are included in the settings.  However, Microsoft can include all websites because it is virtually impossible to develop a complete listing and new websites are popping up all the time.  Therefore, from time to time, it is necessary to manually add these to your Trusted sites list in order to properly display graphics and image files.  If when this occurs on any particular website you right click and select properties on any of the DNS gif files, you will see that they are embedded in DNS.

I don't disagree with you that Nuance (DNS) ought to trap this problem and do something about it.  It is very possible that Nuance could create some code that would prompt you when this occurs and ask you if you want to add this website to your Trusted list, with the consequent warning about the dangers of doing so, and then allow you to make a choice and add it automatically.  However, keep in mind that doing so is adding some risk, specifically relative to your inadvertently being directed to a hackers website who it has embedded images and other Malware, which can silently download malicious scripts without your even being aware of it.  Some hackers are so good at doing this that even your current antivirus Internet security software is very likely to miss it.  Once a hacker takes over your system, it's all over but the shouting.  Therefore, it isn't a question of whether or not DNS could do something like this, it's a question of whether or not doing so could possibly create a significant security breach.  On the other hand, I agree with you that a warning message explaining the problem is probably a viable request.  I certainly would support that.  But the fact remains that DNS isn't causing any problems here because the functionality remains whether the graphics display or not.  It's the IE security settings that prevent the display of the up arrow and numbered links graphics (gif files).  If DNS prevented the execution of these commands or links, then I would say Yes, it is a DNS problem.  Nevertheless, resolving this type of issue takes a lot of thought in order to prevent a solution from compromising your system security.

joycek,

As I indicated above, it isn't a functionality or compatibility issue.  It's simply a graphics display or not display issue based on the security settings for a particular website.  If the website is included in the Trusted list, which I also said above is done by Microsoft in many cases when you install Internet Explorer, then you don't have a problem with those websites as regards the display of the DNS graphics (gif files).  Issuing those commands still produce the links and/or execute the selection (up arrow).  It is only the display of the graphic files that doesn't show up on the website.

So, the command and control is still there and is still functions in exactly the same way whether the graphics are displayed or not.  The fact that the graphics don't show only makes it a little bit more difficult, particularly if you have trouble reading the text next to the numbered links.

Again, as I said above, if the site is not in the Trusted sites list, IE simply blocks the display of the graphics it doesn't prevent the execution of the function.  What you remember is also what I referred to above in that the security settings in IE 4 and IE 5 were not as complex.  Also, with the advent of DNS 9-9.5, Nuance moved from Natural text to WebIE.dll in order to work with the newest features of IE 6 and IE 7.  This has created some issues.

For example, using the "Alt+space+n" in order to minimize IE 7 causes IE 7 to go into a timing loop that takes, sometimes, several minutes to clear out and allow you to re-access IE 7.  Regardless, IE doesn't hang, it just goes into a loop and the user has to wait for the timeout to execute before control of IE returns.  Using the Natural Language Commands to "minimize window", along with all the related commands relative to IE, function without causing this problem, at least I haven't found any of them to cause this problem when using the Natural Language Commands only..  The problem occurs because someone has created a custom command that uses "Alt+space+n" which is what causes the problem.  If you manually do this using the keyboard (keystrokes) the same problem occurs.  So, how can this be a DNS problem if it can be duplicated using the keyboard.  In short, it seems to be a problem inherent in IE 7.  Another example is that if you're dictating into a no-brainer reply message box and you have your pop-up blocker blocking all pop-ups and you say "insert quote" the KnowBrainer forum will prompt you with the yellow bar and a warning message saying that you can't access the "insert quote" command unless you turn off your pop-up blocker.  Nevertheless, you can click on the toolbar button and the insert quote dialog will come up just fine.  Is this a DNS problem? How can it possibly be a DNS problem.  It's the pop-up blocker that is controlling the response, not DNS.

The long and the short of it is that simply because the graphics don't display doesn't mean that they are nonfunctional.  It's simply means that until you add that particular site to your Trusted sites, only the graphics don't display, the functionality remains.  And, it isn't necessary to add every website to your Trusted sites list.  Some are already listed in some are considered trustworthy from the get go.

Only questionable sites require manual configuration.  Who is supposed to make that determination? The correct answer is, "Who is Microsoft?"

Chuck Runquist
Owner, GEMCCON – The Choice of Intelligence
Speech Recognition Consulting and Training

We would often be sorry if our wishes were gratified. - Aesop (620 BC - 700 BC)

Chucker, reading your reponses I can't help but come to the conclusion that you should seriously consider becoming a politician

Chuck,

 I have a customer in the UK that is experiencing this problem with DragonNS 11 and IE8. For this customer adding sites to the 'trusted site' list is not an acceptable solution.

Are you aware of any Internet Explorer setting that will allow the display of the image for sites that are not on the trusted list? I understand that such an override would introduce a security risk, and defeat one reason why the trusted site list feature was introduced in the first place, () and so therefore it is probably not possible. It is just that we have hit an impasse and I am looking for any possible way around the problem.

Are you aware of what other actions are permissible once a site is on the trusted site?

Any help is much appreciated.

Mark

ianmills,

If there are two things on my "easy to hate list", one is politics and the other is poor marketing.

joycek,

Actually, even though I forget exactly how to do it, there is a way in Internet Explorer, Internet Options to turn off the necessity to add URLs to the "Trusted sites" list. However, Microsoft recommends that you not do that because there is a way for hackers to use gif files as camouflage for virus and Malware, Trojans and worms, and just generally the ability to hack into your system. For the average user that is probably unlikely, but rather safe than sorry.

I would agree with you that the vast majority of websites may be needed to the Trusted sites list, but I have always found some that are there already. What distinguishes between those that are automatically added in those that are not, is probably moot and not worth worrying about. Just add them because that is a simple process, and then refresh the page.

I would agree with you that in some cases the "Choose #" with the red, white, and blue square can overlap and make it difficult to use. However, that's usually only in places where the links are so close together that they overlap. Not every website is like that. Besides, what I meant by the "functionality remains" is that you can still actively choose any of them by voice regardless of whether you can see them or not. I didn't mean that it wasn't difficult in some cases. That is, the link numbers are still actively selectable by voice regardless of the display issues.

Mark,

As I said above, I don't recall exactly what that's setting is, but somebody on this forum posted that option and a method for electing it. I believe that you will find it in the Internet Options | Advanced tab. However, I don't remember exactly what the checkbox option is that disables this necessity. If I find it, I'll let you know.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, We make it better!

A little bit of knowledge is dangerous, a lot of knowledge is just plain fatal. - Chuck Runquist

Thank you, Chuck for your reply.  At least it makes some sense, although I am deeply distressed and saddened by this state of affairs.  I remember when Dragon NaturallySpeaking wonderfully in Internet Explorer. 

So what you are telling me is that, if you want to browse using Internet Explorer with Naturallyspeaking, you must add each and every website that you want to work with into your Trusted Sites in Internet Explorer's security settings?  Obviously, this is untenable, especially for someone with a physical disability.  Do you have any more information, because I would be more than willing to try and figure this out.  What is it about putting something in the Trusted Sites, that allows the images to display?

If not, what is someone with a physical disability, who absolutely needs functional command control to do?  Does anyone remember which version of Internet Explorer, Windows, and Naturallyspeaking actually worked properly?

How are folks with physical disabilities managing at all?  Mouse Grid?

"And, it isn't necessary to add every website to your Trusted sites list.  Some are already listed in some are considered trustworthy from the get go. "

 I have not found even one site that works without manually being added....including Microsoft.com!

I know that this is not your problem, Chuck, but I strongly disagree that "the functionality remains".  If you can't see the numbers in the boxed (which I can't most of the time, because they are piled so close to one another, or the background blends them in), then you can't use them.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Joyce

www.pcbyvoice.com
www.pcbyvoice.co.uk