KnowBrainer Speech Recognition
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Topic Title: *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved
Topic Summary: Rewriting the system.dvc and Dragon cmds - no more crashes
Created On: 09/18/2020 05:06 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/18/2020 05:06 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - Matt_Chambers - 09/18/2020 05:21 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - cactustweeter - 09/18/2020 08:45 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/18/2020 09:08 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - Kelray - 09/19/2020 04:14 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - DigitalCyclist - 09/20/2020 11:20 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - Lunis Orcutt - 09/21/2020 10:21 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - Grandslam - 09/19/2020 06:39 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - monkey8 - 09/19/2020 09:24 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - sterlingtimes - 09/19/2020 10:19 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - Kelray - 09/19/2020 02:18 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - PG LTU - 09/19/2020 03:09 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/19/2020 07:04 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - Alan Cantor - 09/19/2020 08:29 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/19/2020 09:54 PM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - sterlingtimes - 09/20/2020 07:37 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - PG LTU - 09/20/2020 10:00 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - sterlingtimes - 09/20/2020 10:40 AM  
 MouseGrid fixed perhaps and certainly improved   - brooklyn cabin - 09/20/2020 09:36 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/21/2020 12:28 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - Lunis Orcutt - 09/21/2020 05:51 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/21/2020 03:43 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - Matt_Chambers - 09/21/2020 04:48 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/21/2020 07:32 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 09/25/2020 01:38 AM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - Lunis Orcutt - 10/04/2020 04:10 PM  
 *UPDATED* MouseGrid has been fixed and improved   - PG LTU - 10/04/2020 02:15 PM  
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 09/18/2020 05:21 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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Great stuff, PG!
 09/18/2020 08:45 PM
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cactustweeter
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Originally posted by: PG LTU

I re-wrote the system.dvc file and the equivalent dragon dvc scripts.  You have to put my copy of system.dvc in to the appropriate place, and overwrite the scripting commands with my command file.

 

Your system.dvc file is much cleaner then DPG 15.6 default version. I know where to put the system.dvc file. What do I do with the commands.xml? Import them into Command Browser? Thanks so much for sharing these fixes. Much appreciated.



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Dragon in use.  Occasionally mistakes are made.  I correct the ones I notice... 



 09/18/2020 09:08 PM
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PG LTU
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Let me add a few details.  The two files need to be saved on your PC.  The .dvc file should save automatically, but if clicking the .xml opens something you don't like in your browser, go back or close the tab, and then right-click on the file link and select "Save link as" from the context menu.

 

Once you have those two files, here's what you gotta do:

 

For the .dvc, rename it to "system.dvc" and take that file and overwrite your existing system.dvc file with it.  In 15.6 the typical location for English speakers is:

C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Data\enx\dvcu\general

 

Two things to note.  1. If your default file view includes "hide extensions for known file types" then you have to take care that extensions aren't applied to the system.dvc file as .dvc _is_ its extension. 2. If you can't find the file directory, it might be "hidden" and there is an option you can tick to change that, or just paste in the address.  You need to close and re-open your User after you do the overwrite, but to be safe, you can exit and resatart Dragon.

 

Now, for the custom command .xml file, it should be fine as is.  In an open Dragon User Profile (yes, for each profile), open the Command Browser and go to Manage.  From here, under Global commands, you may want to delete the existing mouse grid commands, and then you can "import" the .xml file you saved.  You have to change the "looking for" dropdown to .xml, but that's all there is to it.  Overwrite the existing commands if they weren't deleted first, and you are set. 

 

Note, I changed [1to9] to all numerals and added diagonal directions to a new list [pgdirection].  If you use the [1to9] list for other things, you may get a warning that lists in the imported commands will get a changed name, but that's ok.  It'll work with the changed names, although the better solution is go ahead and change that existing [1to9] list to match the entries in the one I provide (the digits, 1 to 9).  Same with [mouseaction] although if you delete all the mouse grid commands there isn't likely to be any conflict with the [mouseaction] list I include.  If you do have a conflict, conform your existing [mouseaction] list to the one I provide (also shown a few posts below).

 

Hth,



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/19/2020 04:14 PM
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Kelray
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Thank you very much for the thorough directions. They must have been thorough if somebody as thickheaded as me could follow them. The mouse grid seems to be working quite well right now. I did notice that I have to give the different mouse commands rather slowly. If I say for example "mouse grid 1 5 9" fast I still will get the fatal exception error. As long as I take a pause between the numbers it seems to work perfectly. Beggars certainly cannot be choosers. That is a very minor adjustment I will have to make to my use of the mouse grid. I am just really happy to have it working again.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate your help with this. I was really getting sick of not being able to use the mouse grid command like I used to be able to.

I don't know what I would do if it wasn't for this forum. Everybody on here is so very helpful.

Raymond 

 09/20/2020 11:20 AM
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DigitalCyclist
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Presumably these improvements will work equally well in DPG 15.6 as in DPI 15.6, seeing as the Nuance-distributed files for system.dvc appear to be identical?

In my DPG 15.6 installation I have both:
C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Data\enx\dvcu\general 
as well as
C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Data\enx\dvce\general
which again appear to have identical contents.

Presumably I can replace system.dvc in both? (While renaming the originals to system-OLD.dvc "just in case".)

Thanks.

EDIT: update – working like a charm in DPG 15.6.



 09/21/2020 10:21 AM
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Lunis Orcutt
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DigitalCyclist,

NEVER fix something that isn't broken. The C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking15\Data\enx\dvce\general\system.dvc is encrypted; probably for good reason.

We have also tested the new system.dvc file in DPG 15.6 and while we can see the code is much cleaner, it still freezes Dragon unless we pause 1 second between movements, which is how we would use it anyway.



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 09/19/2020 06:39 AM
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Grandslam
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Lol. Nuance should have you on staff!
 09/19/2020 09:24 AM
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monkey8
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+1 nice work PG!



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 09/19/2020 10:19 AM
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sterlingtimes
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Thank you, PG, for once I was able to implement with the limited instructions. This is working well and I appreciate your efforts. Regards, Stephen
 09/19/2020 02:18 PM
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Kelray
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I am really looking forward to trying your fixes here, but I cannot figure out what to do with these. I must be having a big brain fart. If you could give me a little bit more information about what to do with these I would really appreciate it.
I am sorry for the inconvenience.
Raymond

 09/19/2020 03:09 PM
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PG LTU
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No worries. I provided good details in my edited 2nd post above. Lemme know how you make out . . .



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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/19/2020 07:04 PM
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PG LTU
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Thx Raymond - I know what you mean, and I think I fixed the Dragon DVC commands causing it.  My mousegrid mode commands (system.dvc) worked once you were in mousegrid mode. 

Per the edits above, I have updated the two files and fixed the timing issue, among other improvements, and I daresay this is now a complete solution. NOTES: When in mousegrid mode you have a few new additional commands:

Move Mouse [pgDirection] (the directions are: up, down, left, right, lower left, lower right, upper left, and upper right.
Move Mouse [pgDirection] [Speed] - these commands end mousegrid mode and start the mouse moving
[GoToSleep] and [MikeOff] - because those commands otherwise don't work in mousegrid mode
Lock [workstation] - because sometimes you have to lock the workstation

I also include my own improved asleep mode commands which include vocal confirmations, the ability to turn the mic off from asleep state, the ability to use the mouse by saying "mouse [mouseaction]" even while asleep, and of course, Lock [workstation] because again, you need to be able to do that.

Use at own risk, but wow, is all I'll say . . .

Hth,



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/19/2020 08:29 PM
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Alan Cantor
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but wow, is all I'll say . . .



A gigantic thank you to Philip for taking the time to develop these replacement scripts. Although I don't tend to rely on mouse emulation, there are moments I need them, and Philip's commands work better, and are more versatile, than the originals. "Wow" is entirely appropriate!

It's unfortunate Nuance's QA process allows major bugs like this to slip through. But the story is familiar - it has happened with many previous releases. (Anyone remember when commands that included digits between 1 and 20 failed with "19", such as "move down 19"?)

On the other hand, with Version 15.6, we are fortunate to have a workaround that significantly improves the ability to control the mouse by voice. And Philip managed to pull it together in just a few days!

Mouse emulation has always been a Dragon weakness. Philip's efforts demonstrate what can be accomplished with existing technologies. But dvc has been around since the late-1990s. I wonder why built-in mouse commands have not significantly improved during the 23 years since Dragon's introduction. Enhancements like Philip's could have been incorporated into Dragon years ago... or decades ago.
 09/19/2020 09:54 PM
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PG LTU
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Last time, I promise:
Please obtain the latest system.dvc from the top post - it has an important fix for many of the long string commands, and they work impeccably now.

In addition, I made the new [pgDirection] list used in the mouse [pgDirection] [1to30] command uniform with the "move mouse" directions:
up, down, left, right, lower left, lower right, upper left, upper right


So now you can start the mouse moving from within the mouse grid.

@Alan: You may rethink the "mouse grid" and "mouse [pgdirection] [1to30]" and now the "move mouse [pgdirection]" and optionally "[speed]" commands for quickly navigating a primary desktop or program on the main display. It is not hard to get used to saying 2-3 numbers with mouse grid to fine tune where you want to go, and the two other mouse movement commands deploy extremely quickly and well. Try it for a while and you will see.

As to why Nuance hasn't done it, well, there is a lot of stuff I had to figure out about it and it was not a trivial exercise, but rather one in which I had to do a lot of testing and thinking and guessing and trying things out and reading about it and surmounting problems and untold difficulties that have existed for a long time (mouse grid started getting flakey before ver 13 so I stopped using it so much) and there was a long felt but unfulfilled need for this work which I put in. That could have a lot to do with it. Besides, until recently, did anyone bring this up to Nuance? Nuance has done a great job lately, but did they even know of the problem? I had stopped using mouse grid (after relying on it extensively from ver 7 on) around 11.5 or 13 or when other numbering schemes (SS+, VC, etc) became prevalent until I tried again recently.



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/20/2020 07:37 AM
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sterlingtimes
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I notice that if I say "mouse" or "mouse window" plus number(s), I get the same response as saying "mousegrid". Is this a standard Dragon feature?
 09/20/2020 10:00 AM
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PG LTU
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Yes, I think that was part of the original DVC - I'm not sure it worked so well, though, as I tried only many years ago. But as you see, "mouse" by itself is not a synonym, but together with numbers, "mouse" substitutes for "mousegrid" in the commands. I only used it in testing, but I'm getting more use to saying "mouse window [1to9]" etc to save the syllable.

Here is something to keep in mind. During ordinary dictation, the first "mouse grid" command you say executes a Dragon Script (the DVCs shown in the command browser that I fixed in the above custom command .xml file). After that, unless you included a [mouseaction] in that command, you will be in mousegrid mode and the only commands that work are from the system.dvc file (in that mode - that is why I had to add mic controls and lock workstation commands). To get out of mousegrid mode, move the mouse with a mousegrid command or execute a mouseaction or just say cancel.



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PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/20/2020 10:40 AM
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sterlingtimes
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Thank you, PG, for the explanation. There is a body of opinion that MouseGrid is redundant. However, we can see that there is some following here. I have tried alternatives for mouse and window placement but this remains my favourite approach. Your intervention has been worthwhile. 

 09/20/2020 09:36 PM
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brooklyn cabin
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Thank you PG. So grateful for the time and thoughtfulness you put into this. A true help for our community.

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 09/21/2020 12:28 PM
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PG LTU
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Lunis you also need the custom XML commands to be imported and overwrite the existing ones (or rather, delete the existing ones first). You are getting that error from calling an original Dragon DVC command (which, as I mentioned, are broken). You need to do both things if you want no errors when starting with more than one number in the command.

Or, if you want to test just the system.dvc, just start with "mousegrid" (which even the Dragon DVC command will work) and which will put you in mousegrid mode where my system.dvc file will take it from there.  Now you can call many numbers and optionally a [mouseaction] in a single command utterance, or even start over from within mousegrid mode.  For example, saying "mouse window 9 9 9 9 1 mark" marks the location of the bottom right border of almost any window so you can now move the mouse to somewhere else and then drag that window border to the new mouse location by saying "mouse drag" and therefore resize that window.

 

But for sure, everyone, only overwrite the unencrypted version of system.dvc!!!



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/21/2020 05:51 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Sorry about our halfway attempt. We made a few edits at the end of your MyCommands.dvc file (to add a couple more wakeup commands) but we foolishly imported your XML file instead of removing the originals 1st. We can now rattle off the numbers, in a single utterance, with smooth quick success. Very well done



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 09/21/2020 03:43 PM
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PG LTU
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EVERYONE WHO HAS ALREADY FIXED MOUSEGRID SHOULD DO SO AGAIN WITH THE UPDATED FILES.

Please go back to top post as I have updated the links to today, 21-Sep-2020 at 7:15 EDT.



Yikes, so I made the changes I mentioned above but never exported the newly changed custom .xml commands when I updated the system.dvc and custom xml commands last time (to unify the mouse [directions]). But since my commands had been fixed I didn't realize it until I tried to redo from a brand new profile (as the commands need to be imported for each profile).

And since that conflict with existing direction commands was a PITA, I renamed the custom list in both the system.dvc and .xml commands file that are now attached to something non-conflicting. Again, as to the [1to9] and [mouseaction] lists, I recommend conforming the existing lists first before importing the new ones I now use. [1to9] is just the number digits, and [mouseaction] is below.

Sorry for the inconvenience of updating on the fly, but this should be the last (even though I said that before) . . .



[mouseaction]
click
control click
control drag
control left click
control right click
control shift click
double click
drag
go
left click
mark
right click
shift click
shift control click
shift drag
shift left click
shift right click



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/21/2020 04:48 PM
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Matt_Chambers
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"Yikes, so I made the changes I mentioned above but never exported the newly changed custom .xml commands when I updated the system.dvc and custom xml commands last time (to unify the mouse [directions]). But since my commands had been fixed I didn't realize it until I tried to redo from a brand new profile (as the commands need to be imported for each profile)."

It makes me feel better to know even a real expert like you makes a mistake once in a while. (This is the kind of thing I do all the time.)
 09/21/2020 07:32 PM
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PG LTU
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So in case anyone was wondering, the reason for all the updates is I had added some mouse direction commands (mouse [pgdirection] [1to30] [mouseaction]) and the like with new diagonal directions and new [mouseaction] options into the mousegrid state commands system.dvc. But the original part from Nuance for handling those parts used HeardWord statements which no longer work because some of the list entries for direction and mouse action were more than one word. So I had to copy the correct code in and adjust the _arg#'s and a few other things to fix. This also had to be done in the Dragon commands, too.

 

Both files above are fully correct as of 7:15 EDT.

 

 

 

EDIT (22-Sep-2020):  Timing and mouse action problem has been completely fixed by now and I can confirm it all works just as it should.  And now I have confirmed that "working" includes *working on my Remote Desktops* (using DPG15.6)!



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 09/25/2020 01:38 AM
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PG LTU
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There is some important info here http://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=34907 and I would wait for Lunis to re-issue his helpful MouseGrid Patch utility . . .



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



 10/04/2020 04:10 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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My apologies for not announcing that we have finished PG's KnowBrainer System which includes an updated self installing system.dvc file, Dragon commands, that will need imported and pictorial details on the process.



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 10/04/2020 02:15 PM
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PG LTU
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As mentioned, this issue has been going on for a while:
http://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=19965

http://www.knowbrainer.com/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=11931

 

and throughout 2012 though the screen resolution or scaling was thought to be at least one culprit (though never a complete solution - which mine is!)



-------------------------




PG





Remember folks, my comments and this forum are for entertainment value only, please, no wagering or other reliance on the contents herein.  I permit no commercial use of my ideas (whether expressions or embodiments) without my written consent.



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