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Topic Title: Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?
Topic Summary: Trying to Find a Way to Clearly Separate Two Words By Adding Three Spaces
Created On: 03/01/2012 12:57 AM
Status: Post and Reply
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 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/01/2012 12:57 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/01/2012 01:39 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - bmac - 03/02/2012 05:26 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - Chucker - 03/02/2012 06:02 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - bmac - 03/03/2012 09:19 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/03/2012 10:01 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - bmac - 03/03/2012 10:16 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - monkey8 - 03/03/2012 10:26 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/03/2012 11:18 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - Larry Allen - 03/03/2012 11:29 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/03/2012 11:45 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - Chucker - 03/03/2012 12:07 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - hmyer - 03/01/2012 07:52 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/01/2012 09:02 AM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - GDS - 03/01/2012 05:09 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - Larry Allen - 03/02/2012 01:15 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/02/2012 01:50 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - Lunis Orcutt - 03/02/2012 05:21 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/02/2012 10:14 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/03/2012 12:15 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - monkey8 - 03/03/2012 12:22 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/03/2012 12:23 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - Larry Allen - 03/03/2012 01:03 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/03/2012 12:50 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - monkey8 - 03/03/2012 01:06 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/03/2012 04:06 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/03/2012 04:16 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - drutgat - 03/03/2012 04:31 PM  
 Is There Any Way to Add Three Spaces between Two Words?   - R. Wilke - 03/03/2012 04:46 PM  
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 03/01/2012 12:57 AM
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drutgat
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Hi Everyone,

My surname consists of three separate words, and I have found over the years that, despite there being a space between my first name and the first word of my last name, people sometimes assume that these two words are part of a double-barreled first name.

When writing by hand, my solution to this has been to put a lot of space between my first name and the beginning of my last name, so I wanted to reproduce this in Dragon. However, when I added my last name to the vocabulary, and tried to add three spaces before the first word in my last name, Dragon would not let me do so.

Is there any way of doing this?

I tend to get a bit confused by the options in the 'Properties' tab of the Vocabulary Editor, but suspect that I might be able to use the 'Preceded by' and 'And follow with' to accomplish this.

Many thanks,

Drutgat.

 03/01/2012 01:39 AM
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R. Wilke
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All you can do is set the properties to insert two spaces automatically after and before the word by using that option.

Rüdiger

 



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 03/02/2012 05:26 PM
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bmac
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Or, create a new phrase with the proper spacing for your name and call it something like "My Name".  Then you do not need to worry about changing any spacing.

 

EDIT: oops - just read Lunis' post so I guess this will not work.  

 

Edit #2:  As Hmver suggested, the command browser approach does work.  You can have as many spaces as you want between words, err names. 



-------------------------

Bill
DNS Pro v13, KB 2014, customized Desktop PC (Haswell i7 4770 3.4 gHz with 32 GB RAM), Windows 8.1 Pro Update 1 64-bit, 240 GB SSD, Philips SpeechMike 3500, SpeechWare 3-in-1 TableMike, SpeechWare travel Mike, MS Office 2013 Professional and a Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Windows 8.1 Update 1, 240 GB SSD, 8 GB ram, i7

 03/02/2012 06:02 PM
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Chucker
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Bill,

If you try to do that, this is what you get:



Just FYI for anyone who is curious. Unfortunately, the best you get, or can get, is two spaces using the properties (i.e., insert spaces before/after). Therefore, you're left with the option that Hymer pointed out, which is simply create a Global Text and Graphics macro.

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, We make it better!

Be careful what you wish for.  You may find that what you get is not what you expect, or what you want. - Aesop (620 BC - 700 BC modern interpretation)



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 03/03/2012 09:19 AM
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bmac
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Now, that is very interesting because I do not get that error message. I created a simple command as you see and then opened Microsoft Word and dictated what you see in the 2nd image below.

-------------------------

Bill
DNS Pro v13, KB 2014, customized Desktop PC (Haswell i7 4770 3.4 gHz with 32 GB RAM), Windows 8.1 Pro Update 1 64-bit, 240 GB SSD, Philips SpeechMike 3500, SpeechWare 3-in-1 TableMike, SpeechWare travel Mike, MS Office 2013 Professional and a Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Windows 8.1 Update 1, 240 GB SSD, 8 GB ram, i7

 03/03/2012 10:01 AM
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R. Wilke
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Bill,

the problem only arises when trying to do this with the written form in the vocabulary editor. I also thought I was really clever (maybe also Larry and Lunis did, but I don't know) and tried it after the initial postings, but found it didn't work, so I didn't bother bringing it up, also avoiding to demonstrate I am not really that clever. There are certain limitations as to what can be done with the written forms in terms of characters, and this is one of them, as it turns out.

Rüdiger

 



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 03/03/2012 10:16 AM
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bmac
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I guess I interpreted Chuck's message to mean that even the Command Browser approach produced the error.  I just reread his message and I guess he did not see my edit #2 and was referring to my initial post.

-------------------------

Bill
DNS Pro v13, KB 2014, customized Desktop PC (Haswell i7 4770 3.4 gHz with 32 GB RAM), Windows 8.1 Pro Update 1 64-bit, 240 GB SSD, Philips SpeechMike 3500, SpeechWare 3-in-1 TableMike, SpeechWare travel Mike, MS Office 2013 Professional and a Microsoft Surface Pro 3, Windows 8.1 Update 1, 240 GB SSD, 8 GB ram, i7

 03/03/2012 10:26 AM
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monkey8
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There are certain limitations with the written forms true but they don't apply to the alternate written forms, therefore it is very easy to do this by simply adding the word "Chuck Runquist" with an alternate written form of "Chuck   Runquist"

My name is Chuck   Runquist and I have three spaces in between my first name and my last name.

The advantage of using the alternate written form over a command is that you can dictate your name continuously and get the three spaces you require.

Lindsay   Adam

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www.pcbyvoice.co.uk

 03/03/2012 11:18 AM
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R. Wilke
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Quote:
There are certain limitations with the written forms true but they don't apply to the alternate written forms, therefore it is very easy to do this by simply adding the word "Chuck Runquist" with an alternate written form of "Chuck Runquist"

Yes, but please don't forget that alternate written forms cannot be exported (by themselves) so don't be surprized if one day there are no more spaces left between you and yourself.

ChuckRunquist

 



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 03/03/2012 11:29 AM
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Larry Allen
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Apparently the behavior using the Vocabulary Editor varies between versions of Dragon.

As shown by the attachment, I am able to have three spaces between words with a simple written form/spoken form in Dragon Medical Practice Edition.  It works with the General English vocabulary as well as with a couple of the medical vocabularies.  Apparently Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11.5 doesn't work exactly the same.   My apologies for making an assumption that turns out to be invalid.

 



threeSpaces.jpg
threeSpaces.jpg  (15 KB)



-------------------------

Larry Allen
Softnet Systems, Inc.
http://www.pcspeak.com

 03/03/2012 11:45 AM
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R. Wilke
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Larry,

along this discussion, my assumption has been that there may be a difference in here between version 10 and 11, so I will look it up next and report back.

Rüdiger

 



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 03/03/2012 12:07 PM
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Chucker
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Quote:
As shown by the attachment, I am able to have three spaces between words with a simple written form/spoken form in Dragon Medical Practice Edition.  It works with the General English vocabulary as well as with a couple of the medical vocabularies.  Apparently Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11.5 doesn't work exactly the same.   My apologies for making an assumption that turns out to be invalid.

Larry & Rüdiger,

Larry is correct. Having tested in DMPE, you can add spaces in the written form even for the General_Large vocabulary. However, that intrigued me enough to try it in DNS 10.1 Medical and DNS 10.1 Professional/legal. In all cases, you can add extra spaces in the Written form for DNS 10.1.

Since DMPE is basically just DNS 10.1 Medical using the DNS 11 speech engine it isn't surprising that it currently also works in DMPE. However, if Nuance ever gets off their fat butts and provides an upgrade for DMPE to 11.5, I would be willing to bet that that capability will cease because it absolutely doesn't work in DNS 11.5 (any version).

Chuck Runquist
Technical Project Manager
VoiceTeach LLC
Home of VoicePower®: We don't make Dragon NaturallySpeaking, We make it better!

.. a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are, in short, a perfect match. ~Bill Bryson



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 03/01/2012 07:52 AM
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hmyer
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Go into the command browser and create a global command for your name, unless you only want it for particular applications. Then you can type in whatever you want.

You could name the command sig, or signature  or whatever.



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 03/01/2012 09:02 AM
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drutgat
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Hi hmyer and Rudiger,

Thanks for your replies.

hmyer, I cannot believe that I did not think of your suggestion, because at the time that I posted the message on the forum yesterday, I had actually created a few custom commands for the first time.

Thanks, once again,

Drutgat. 

 03/01/2012 05:09 PM
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GDS
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Drutgat,

hmyer's suggestion and Rudiger's suggestion are equally valid. One advantage to Rudiger's suggestion, though, is that you'll be able to dictate it quicker. You have to pause briefly before issuing commands, whereas you don't need to pause when dictating words in the vocabulary. Just some food for thought.



-------------------------

Eric Wright  At work: Dragon Medical 10.1. At Home: Dragon NaturallySpeaking 13 Professional, KnowBrainer 2012; Dragon Dictate 3 for Mac


 


 


 


 


 


Appetite for Dictation - My Blog

 03/02/2012 01:15 PM
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Larry Allen
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I'd do this by opening Vocabulary Editor and making a "word" where the written form consists of your name with however many blanks you desire between first and last name.  For example, "Larry     Allen" in the written form.  No spoken form is needed.

The other ways mentioned will work too.

 



-------------------------

Larry Allen
Softnet Systems, Inc.
http://www.pcspeak.com

 03/02/2012 01:50 PM
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R. Wilke
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Quote:
I'd do this by opening Vocabulary Editor and making a "word" where the written form consists of your name with however many blanks you desire between first and last name. For example, "Larry Allen" in the written form. No spoken form is needed.

Larry,

when trying this, I for one get an error message telling me it is not legal because the written form contains too many blanks.

Rüdiger

 



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 03/02/2012 05:21 PM
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Lunis Orcutt
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Yup, Rüdiger is correct. We initially thought it would be as easy as adding 3 spaces between 2 words in the Written Form but NaturallySpeaking does not permit 3 spaces. Drat :-(

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 03/02/2012 10:14 PM
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drutgat
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the messages. 

I should have said in my initial message that I had actually tried to put three spaces before my last name by adding my surname to the Vocabulary Editor, and had found that I could not do so (see Chuck's message above for the error screen that one gets if one tries to do this). 

hmyer's suggestion works perfectly – thank you very much.

Drutgat. 

 03/03/2012 12:15 PM
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drutgat
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Apparently the behavior using the Vocabulary Editor varies between versions of Dragon.

As shown by the attachment, I am able to have three spaces between words with a simple written form/spoken form in Dragon Medical Practice Edition.  It works with the General English vocabulary as well as with a couple of the medical vocabularies.  Apparently Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11.5 doesn't work exactly the same.   My apologies for making an assumption that turns out to be invalid.

Hi Larry, 

And I, too, made an assumption that the Vocabulary Editor behaves in the same way across all versions of Dragon.

Here is another assumption – that, given your experience with Dragon Medical Practice Addition, it is not difficult for dragons software writers to code all versions of Dragon so that they are able to insert several spaces (or an unlimited number of spaces).

Thanks for your messages.

Drutgat. 

 03/03/2012 12:22 PM
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monkey8
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Drutgat

So do you have an aversion to using the alternate written form solution that I have gave above?  Works perfectly and you can dictate your name continuously without having to pause before saying a command name.

Lindsay



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www.pcbyvoice.co.uk

 03/03/2012 12:23 PM
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R. Wilke
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Quote:
given your experience with Dragon Medical Practice Addition, it is not difficult for dragons software writers to code all versions of Dragon so that they are able to insert several spaces

Well, only in your dreams, but in mine as well. There is no way you could interfere with the vocabulary in that aspect. Period.

Rüdiger

 



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 03/03/2012 01:03 PM
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Larry Allen
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Quote:
Here is another assumption – that, given your experience with Dragon Medical Practice Addition, it is not difficult for dragons software writers to code all versions of Dragon so that they are able to insert several spaces (or an unlimited number of spaces).

I do not agree with that assumption.  Once one allows more spacing between words for vocabulary, then within Dragon the programmers must make decisions regarding spacing when the phrase crosses lines, spacing when there are corrections that involve the phrase, spacing that involves words before and/or after the phrase, what to do with keyboard corrections, how to handle these phrases within the optimizers, how to parse the phrases within import/export tools, how and whether to look for these phrases in the vocabulary analysis tools, whether special rules are needed if people have included punctuation within the written form, ...

However they decide to do this, they will be criticized for not doing it "correctly" according to some individual who has a specific writing need. 

Some of this stuff IS difficult.

My guess is that allowing multiple spaces in a written form causes other problems.  Chuck, I agree with your logic and suspect that the next iteration of Dragon Medical will not support multiple spaces in a written form.

I'd probably suggest a command for this specific case.   If it was heavily-used then an alternate written form might be better.  Or do both.



-------------------------

Larry Allen
Softnet Systems, Inc.
http://www.pcspeak.com

 03/03/2012 12:50 PM
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drutgat
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Hi Lindsay,

The only reason that I would not use the Alternate Written Form which he suggested is because of what R. Wilke said about Alternative Written Forms not being able to be exported.

Yes, but please don't forget that alternate written forms cannot be exported (by themselves) so don't be surprized if one day there are no more spaces left between you and yourself.

but, out of curiosity, where would one actually create and Alternate Written Form? I seem to remember having seen the place for that previously, but cannot now find it.

Rüdiger ,yes, I am definitely a dreamer when it comes to things like this, but if the code allows this to be done in some other ways and other places (for example, as in Lindsey's suggestion of using an Alternative Written Form, in at least one other version of Dragon, and via the 'Add New Command' command), then it actually seems strange to me that this ability would be restricted in the Vocabulary Editor of certain other versions of Dragon.

In fact, taking into account that there are more places where this appears to work than where it doesn't, it seems to me that whoever coded this went out of their way to restrict this access in the Vocabulary Editor.

At the very least, this is inconsistent.

Drutgat. 

 03/03/2012 01:06 PM
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monkey8
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"Open the Vocabulary Editor"
Add the phrase, e.g., "Drutgat Smith"
After adding the phrase and while it is highlighted click "Properties"
put a check mark in the box "use alternate written form 1"
Then enter "Drutgat   Smith"

although you cannot export the written forms by themselves for you this does not matter because you are using professional and you can export the entire vocabulary and this will keep all the properties including alternate written properties.  Besides for such a simple addition to the vocabulary which takes less than a minute it wouldn't exactly be difficult to add it once every three months or so when you do a new profile.  Anyway if you export your vocabulary you won't even need to do that.

Like I say the advantage of using this entry in the vocabulary is that you do not need to pause before and after using a command and you can just dictate your name continues today with three spaces.

Lindsay

-------------------------


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www.pcbyvoice.co.uk

 03/03/2012 04:06 PM
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drutgat
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Hi Larry and Lindsay,

Larry – I think that my assumption is a pretty fair one because of the number of contexts in which the ability to insert several spaces exists – if it was so difficult, or was going to cause problems, then why would the software engineers have included this ability in the Dragon medical edition, and made it possible to implement having more than 2 spaces in the various contexts in which we have already discussed? Obviously, it is possible, and obviously there are more places in which the ability to implement this function exists than in which it does not exist. Anyway, as I made clear this is just an assumption, and we are all dealing in opinions and conjecture about this.

Lindsay – thank you for posting the procedure for implementing the Alternate Written Forms (of course, I found myself right after I posted the question). 

To clarify, I am actually using two versions of Dragon – I use Professional at work, and Premium at home.

And, thank you for clarifying, but I did understand what you said about using the Alternative Written Form allowing one to dictate without having to pause, unlike when one uses a command and has to pause before and after the command.

However, as I said, it is more suited to my usage that I do this by implementing this is a command, rather than as an Alternative Written Form. There are several specialized usages of vocabulary, and 'jargon' specific to the field in which I work, which I have added to the Vocabulary Editor, and those work well there. However, that is not the route that is best suited to me to use with my surname.

And it does not suit me that I would have to remember to export the Alternative Written Form – it might be better for you to do that in a similar situation, but it is not better for me to do so.

Thanks, once again, for your thoughts, suggestions, and help with this. This is being quite a fascinating and illuminating topic for me.

Drutgat. 

 03/03/2012 04:16 PM
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R. Wilke
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Quote:
Larry – I think that my assumption is a pretty fair one because of the number of contexts in which the ability to insert several spaces exists – if it was so difficult, or was going to cause problems, then why would the software engineers have included this ability in the Dragon medical edition, and made it possible to implement having more than 2 spaces in the various contexts in which we have already discussed? Obviously, it is possible, and obviously there are more places in which the ability to implement this function exists than in which it does not exist. Anyway, as I made clear this is just an assumption, and we are all dealing in opinions and conjecture about this.

No, your assumption is simply false, and this is just due to how the vocabulary is organised, programmatically. Have you ever been there, or has Larry? The simple truth is that this was legal upon to version 10, but isn't any longer in version 11 just because the format of the vocabulary has been changed fundamentally, and obviously with the medical version 11, the previous vocabulary format is still in use.

Having researched how the vocabulary is working actually for very long, I feel sort of tempted to further verify this aspect, but unfortunately I'm afraid I wouldn't have the time to.

Rüdiger

 



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 03/03/2012 04:31 PM
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drutgat
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Hi Rudiger,

well, part of my assumption is demonstrably true – that part in which I say that there are more places in which the ability to implement multiple spaces exist then there are in which this is restricted: we have shown this in this thread; the only place in which that ability seems to be restricted in some versions of Dragon (including Professional and Premium) is in the Vocabulary Editor – as people have already said, the ability to implement multiple spaces exists as a 'Add New Command'option,and in the Medical condition, and it can be worked around in the way that you, yourself, suggested. So there are examples of 3 contexts in which it is possible to have multiple spaces, and one context (the Vocabulary Editor) in which it is not possible to do this.

So, I reiterate my question – why would the software engineers deliberately build this in to these contexts if it was going to cause problems? I very much doubt that deliberately constructing code which allows one to do something in 3 contexts is an oversight in any way, so that leaves the possibility (and, I allow that it is only a possibility, that is why I have been careful to label everything I have said as an assumption) that this is been a deliberate act on the part of the software engineers.

I do not understand what you mean when you ask us have we "been there". Are you referring to having an understanding of coding, or having added to the Vocabulary Editor?

Thanks for your reply.

Drutgat. 

 03/03/2012 04:46 PM
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R. Wilke
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Quote:
I do not understand what you mean when you ask us have we "been there". Are you referring to having an understanding of coding, or having added to the Vocabulary Editor?

Well, yes, one might say I looked at its guts. Maybe you would start believing what I say when looking at my own vocabulary editor, one that I have created independently from the one coming with Dragon, that can at least do something you don't have in the one coming along, searching for spoken forms in the active vocabulary that is:

 

As you can see, my program loads about 3.5 million bytes (currently loaded into RAM) containing the entire active vocabulary, which is something indeed, and sorts its contents to be displayed accordingly, which to admit comes as something not actually easy to discern. Not that much, really, but I have seen worse than that. 

However, since you keep making references to different contexts, while indeed they are different, you cannot mix with what can be done in a text and grafics command (as its contents) with what can be done in the vocabulary, and how each of them work.

Rüdiger

 



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