Hi, all:

 I've been using DNS 11 for a while now on a HP Pavilion laptop with an AMD processor, 2 GB RAM, no sound card, running Windows XP SP3 with unsatisfactory results, including terrible latency, misrecognition, failure of the software to process corrections (that is, I make a correction but the program continues to misrecognize the word), and others.  I originally got DNS with the vxi blueparrott xpressway Bluetooth microphone and dongle here at KnowBrainer, and later got the USB sound card that Nuance sells, to use with the microphone that comes with DNS, which was an improvement over the blueparrott xpressway, but actually not as good as simply plugging the basic microphone in by itself.  But none of these is satisfactory, even though on playback my voice sounds quite clear using the basic mic.  I'm working on a book project dealing with the Bible and have been doing research using WordPerfect 12 for notes, many of which have been dictated (with considerable frustration).  I'm just about ready to begin writing the book and want to use Nota Bene, which is industrial strength authoring software, rather than WP or Word. 

Because of my problems using DNS with the laptop, I've purchased an HP Omni 220xt all-in-one with an Intel i5 quad core processor, 8 GB of RAM, integrated sound (no separate sound card), wireless LAN and Bluetooth, and the wireless keyboard and mouse (which use a USB dongle).  Nota Bene will not work with 64 bit Windows, so I'm running Win 7 Professional 64 bit with XP mode under the Windows Virtual PC for WordPerfect (and Nota Bene, when I get it).

Here are my problems:

1.  When I installed DNS, it immediately told me that v. 11.5 was available, but after I downloaded it there was some sort of a problem with the installation, which didn't take, for reasons that aren't clear.  Despite this, I am still able to use DNS.  Is there any compelling reason I should try with 11.5 again?  That upgrade made absolutely no difference on my laptop.

2.   I originally tried installing DNS under (or on top of) the XP mode (and Virtual PC), but was not successful (apparently there was a runtime C++ dll that was missing, but I didn't get all the details), so I installed it under Win7.  I am able to dictate into WordPerfect, which is installed under the XP mode, with line-in mic and that mic plugged into the USB sound card, but not with the blueparrott xpressway.  I can only use the latter mic to dictate into Wordpad under Win 7.  Any thoughts on how I might get the wireless mic to work under the XP mode would be appreciated.

3.  I use a lot of specialized vocabulary for this book project.  I've installed all my notes in a folder called Religion, which is a subfolder of a folder called Documents, which I pasted into the My Documents folder of Windows 7 and also into c:\Program Files(x86)\Windows Virtual PC.  However, when, in the process of creating a new user profile, the program gets to the part where it will check my e-mails and documents in the My Documents folder, I get the following error message: "Windows Virtual PC   Cannot start virtual application   Cannot start virtual application because the parameters provided to start the application are not valid.  Check the application shortcut and try again." When I click on the OK button, the DNS setup routine then quickly tells me it's finished searching my hard drive for files to index and proceeds.  Any thoughts on how to rectify this would be greatly appreciated, as I suspect having DNS pre-acquainted with the vocabulary I'll be using would aid in recognition accuracy.

 Thanks for your help.

Bob,

DNS 11-11.5 is significantly more resource intensive than previous versions. It uses more RAM and it applies parallel processing (multithreading) on systems that have at least two cores (CPU) and a minimum of 2 GB of RAM. However, the programmers neglected to take into consideration that only having 2 GB of RAM significantly undermines the performance of DNS 11-11.5. The result is that your profile is created using BestMatch IV (multithreading) vs. BestMatch III, which uses sequential processing on a single core. With only 2 GB of RAM, you will eventually arrive at the point where it becomes necessary for Windows to swap out to the pagefile (virtual memory). This is a painfully slow process and can drag Dragon's performance down to a crawl.

There are certain things that you can do to improve performance on your laptop without adding additional RAM, but the bottom line is that Nuance should never have underestimated the minimum requirements below 4 GB when defaulting to BestMatch IV. If you were to upgrade your laptop from 2 GB to 4 GB, you would very likely see a significant improvement in overall performance (reduction in latency). Some of the things that you can do with your laptop are as follows:

1. Upgrade your RAM from 2 GB to 4 GB.

2. Change your pagefile (virtual memory) from dynamic to static. That is, from allowing Windows to handle the pagefile size to setting the minimum and maximum pagefile size to approximately 3096 MB for both settings. This is based on the rule of thumb which is setting the minimum and maximum sizes to approximately 1 1/2 times the total amount of RAM on your system. The simplest way to do this is to use the recommended size in the Virtual Memory dialog.

3. Create a new user profile and change the default BestMatch IV using the Advanced button during the creation process to BestMatch III.

4. Set the Speed vs. Accuracy slider in the DNS Options dialog | Miscellaneous tab all the way to the left (0%).

5. Cleanup your Windows system registry using one of the registry optimizing utilities, such as Registry First Aid, or Fix-It Utilities 12 and/or Perfect Registry 2.0 from Raxco. Make sure that your hard drive is defragged, most particularly when using Windows XP (not as essential when using Windows Vista or Windows 7, but still recommended). Periodically run CHKDSK /f to find and fix any filesystem errors, which can cause problems.

This of course is assuming that you wish to continue use your laptop. Your HP all-in-one is fine for use with DNS 11-11.5.

A good microphone soundcard combination is essential to both performance and accuracy with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Even though the VXI Blue Parrot Expressway Bluetooth microphone is the best of the Bluetooth microphones, Bluetooth is still not ready for prime time for two reasons:

1. There are conditions under which it will not work, as you've already found out.

2. Bluetooth microphones are prone to spontaneously disconnect and difficulty in maintaining a consistent Windows connection under Windows Vista and Windows 7. My experience is that it is also not supported under Windows 7 running XP mode.

3. Bluetooth specifications are primarily designed for telephony. The sampling rate available to Bluetooth microphones when running DNS is only 8 kHz 16-bit Mono vs. the DNS 11-11.5 sampling rate of 22.05 kHz 16-bit Mono with standard microphones (using either the internal soundcard or a USB USB SoundPod) or USB microphones. This means that you can't access input frequencies above 4000 Hz, whereas standard microphones and USB microphones can access up to 11,000 Hz. This makes a big difference in overall accuracy and performance even though DNS handles this fairly well.

4. While the Nuance USB SoundPod is OK, it is just OK. Nuance doesn't thoroughly test either the microphones that they recommend or the USB SoundPod that they sell. You would be better off with either the Andrea half duplex USB SoundPod, the Andrea PureAudio USB-SA USB SoundPod, or the Buddy USB 6G. These are the USB SoundPod that work best and have been thoroughly tested over the years with all versions of DNS including and up to DNS 11-11.5. As regards the microphone provided by Nuance for DNS Premium out-of-the-box, it also is just OK. If you're serious about what it is that you're going to be doing as far as writing a book, then you would be well advised to look into purchasing, at minimum, the Sennheiser ME-3 coupled with the Andrea half duplex USB SoundPod. To put it another way, with the microphones that you're using, I'm not surprised that you're having performance and accuracy issues. It does not pay to cut corners when using DNS, particularly with regard to microphones/soundcards. Less than optimal microphone/soundcard options are sure way to ensure a frustrating experience using DNS 11-11.5, or even any previous version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking.

I'm familiar with Nota Bene. However, there are a couple of things that you should keep in mind:

1. The only thing more useless than XP mode under Windows 7 is running out of gas in the middle of the desert. Yes, nota bene has a buried good set of instructions for installing and using Nota Bene under Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, which you have, using XP mode, but as good as their support is for these kinds of conditions, Windows 7 64-bit having been out now for long enough, it doesn't speak highly of the Nota Bene programmers that they are among the last holdouts to support their application under Windows 7 64-bit. It doesn't have to be made a 64-bit application because there are many applications that have not yet been converted to full 64-bit. Also, some applications, DNS 11-11.5 and DNS 10.1 included and primary, don't require full 64-bit programming. They are 32-bit applications with a 64-bit compliant UIA server that takes full advantage of RAM above 4 GB and the 64-bit CPU registers. There is no reason why they couldn't upgrade their applications such that it will run as a 32-bit application under Windows 7 64-bit. To me that's just plain lazy.

2. I like Nota Bene. I have used it in the past for purposes similar to your own. However, and I confess that I have not looked at Nota Bene version 9, its previous iterations have never supported Full Text Control (Select and Say). So, you may be equally frustrated as you are with WordPerfect 12. As regards WordPerfect 12, DNS 11-11.5 does not support any version of WordPerfect below WordPerfect X3.

WordPerfect X3, X4, X5 (English and French only):
Full Text Control, Menu Tracking, and English Natural
Language Commands

From the Dragon Speech Recognition Feature Matrix, under application support: word processing only the following are supported:

Chuck,

Rudiger's Performance Testing Tool has shown reproducibly that this has no value for DNS performance when looking at before versus after defragmentation on an XP system.

MDH

"What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you." - Anthony de Mello

Hi, Chuck:

 Thanks much for your response.  Very enlightening.

Since I'm most interested in getting DNS going on the new computer, the first thing I checked on was the upgrade.  I couldn't find it on my hard drive (to open it by doubleclicking), so I opened DNS and clicked on Help - Check for Upgrade.  Nothing happened.  Next, I tried telling DNS to learn my vocabulary from specific documents, but I got an error message saying the Virtual PC couldn't be opened, so I deleted the folder containing the documents from C:\Program Files(x86)\Windows Virtual PC and tried again, with the same result.  I think this means that I have to start over by restoring my hard drive to its original factory condition, download all the Windows 7 updates, install DNS, download and install the v. 11.5 update to DNS, copy and paste into My Documents the folder I want DNS to learn from, and go from there.  If I do get Nota Bene, I assume I can download the Windows Virtual PC and XP mode at that time.  If you think otherwise, please advise.  I agree with you about Nota Bene being lax in getting out a version that will run under Win 7 64-bit.  I'm very unhappy about that, but I used the trial version on my old computers (including the laptop), and it has features that I think will make my life easier on this project (at least I hope so, since it's so expensive).  I've been thinking of upgrading to WordPerfect X5, which I can get at a good price, so this is a good excuse.  Thanks for the tip on that.

I did some fairly extensive dictating into DNS last night and found the recognition to be better on this computer than on the laptop, but still not where I'd like it.  For one thing, the program all too often errs on words that have different spellings, depending on context, like to, too, two.  The program gives me one of those, but frequently the wrong one.  If you have any thoughts on how to deal with that problem, I'd like to consider them.  Once I get things with the new computer set up so I can tell how DNS will work using the microphones I currently have with a properly installed program, I'll decide what to do about upgrading to a new mic/soundcard.

 Thank you for the advices concerning my laptop.  I'll try them when I get finished setting the new computer up (well, except for the suggestion to add more memory, since the computer is 5 years old and probably will be replaced within the next year).

Best regards,

WordPerfect X3, X4, X5 (English and French only)"

I was trying to load WordPerfect files for accuracy, and some seemed to get loaded and then the system locked up. Do I understand that I will have to go to WordPerfect X3, and if I do I can then use older documents with .wpd extensions and they will load?

Regarding Lunis' suggestion,

"but if you want to make it even more bulletproof, consider importing all of your files into a single file and then saving the file is a plain text file before running it through the Vocabulary Builder.",

 can I copy and paste my documents from WP into a .doc and accomplish what I am trying to do?

RPC,

 "I was trying to load WordPerfect files for accuracy, and some seemed to get loaded and then the system locked up. Do I understand that I will have to go to WordPerfect X3, and if I do I can then use older documents with .wpd extensions and they will load?"

The current version of WordPerfect is X5.  I have been able to use WP 12 with DNS under Win 7 Pro.  That is to say that I have been able to dictate into WP 12 and haven't had any problem loading or displaying my files when DNS is running.  I should mention that I ran System Recovery and reinstalled all my operating software because of the incorrect installation procedures I used originally, which seemed to be causing operating problems.  However, since then I have not installed the Windows Virtual PC or XP mode.  Everything seems to be working properly now.

"Regarding Lunis' suggestion,

"but if you want to make it even more bulletproof, consider importing all of your files into a single file and then saving the file is a plain text file before running it through the Vocabulary Builder.",

 can I copy and paste my documents from WP into a .doc and accomplish what I am trying to do?"

 What Lunis is talking about here is with regard to my question about importing a vocabulary list into DNS from WP.  I haven't been able to do this for files with the .wpd extension, even with the new, correct installation of DNS.  I first have to save the WP file as .rtf, but then Vocabulary Builder handles it with no problems.

Hope this helps.

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brainybanana:

Thanks for your suggestions.  As noted in my post, I bought DNS and the microphones I have from Lunis and probably will buy from him again, if I upgrade.

I looked at both links you included for the Barton and Brown books.  I haven't read either, but have read others that are similar and, specifically, have read others by Brown.  If I get a chance, I'll try to look at those, but I'm about researched out at this point (over 500 sources, mostly books).

I have considered doing the book either in Word or WordPerfect, but Nota Bene has some features that are attractive, including the Archiva module for generating notes and bibliographies, and word indexing that might be very helpful in finding material in my notes (which are voluminous), especially the word list that pops up when you start to do a search.  In addition, the Lingua module natively supports Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic and I plan on at least a chapter on Islam.  WP doesn't support Arabic script (according to the Corel website, although WP has Arabic fonts), but I know that older versions of Word can and assume the current version would, as well.   If you have some specific reasons why you think I shouldn't use Nota Bene, I'd like to consider them.  I should note that with regard to using DNS in this project, my foremost consideration - by far - is text entry.  Total control over the computer by voice is decidedly secondary, so I wouldn't see the loss of some functionality of DNS with NB running under the XP mode to be a deal breaker, provided that setup would be as effective for accurate text entry as running DNS with Word under Win 7.  If either you or Chuck or anyone else have thoughts on that issue, I'd like to read them.

Thanks, again, for your help.

bb,

Thanks for your reply. 

Right now I'm in experimental mode regarding the setup of the new computer and trying to figure out what software I should use in writing the book.  I anticipate within the next day or so that I will restore my hard drive to its original factory condition and start over, so I'm at liberty now to try most anything.  Thus far, as previously noted, I downloaded and installed XP mode under the Windows Virtual PC and installed WP12 under that and then tried DNS, which would only install under Win 7.  Yesterday I deleted XP mode, and reinstalled WP12 under Win 7.  Deleting XP mode enabled me to download and install the DNS upgrade to v. 11.5.  Two problems:

1) when I tried Chuck's suggestion to use the Learn From Specific Files feature under the Vocabulary Editor, even though I indexed all files pertinent to my book project (totaling thousands of pages of text), it only returned 14 new words.  I know from using DNS on my laptop that there are many words in my files that DNS doesn't know.  Chuck was pretty vehement in telling me to avoid using the feature to search and index my emails and files during new user setup, so I wonder if either you or he (or anyone else) have any thoughts.  One thing I've noted since uninstalling XP mode is that when I go to install new programs (like Copernic desktop search, which I did this morning), it still wants to install in the C:\Program Files(x86) folder, which I take to be for the Virtual PC, rather than C:\Program Files, which I take to be for Win 7.  I wonder if having the Virtual PC (which I don't see how to uninstall) on the machine is causing problems.

2) Accuracy with DNS using the line-in microphone dictating into WP12 was not improved at all under Win 7.  Obviously, this could be a function of the microphone, and I may have to upgrade.  But I also noted something that I've had happen on the laptop, which is that sometimes when I'll say, e.g., "cap Son of God", where all I'm trying to do is capitalize the word Son, the program begins capitalizing the first letter of all subsequent words (other than a, and, the, etc.).  What's the deal with that?  It's very annoying.

Because dictation under XP mode is so iffy, and because having it on the computer may create problems for programs running under Win 7, I'm reconsidering whether to use Nota Bene for this project.  Office Depot had a sale yesterday on Microsoft Office Home and Student, so I bought a 3-PC copy and plan on experimenting with dictating into it.  I'm already past the 30-day trial period for Nota Bene on my other computers, but since this is a new machine, maybe I can try it again and see if it will actually work with the setup I'm going to use for the book before I have to decide whether to buy, 'cause it's really expensive.

Anyway, if either you or Chuck (if he reads this) have any thoughts about this, I'd like to consider them.  And thanks again for all your help.

Bob

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Hope this helps, and if you have any other questions, we will do our best to assist.

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I just purchased & installed WordPerfect x6, which may have been quite an error since it seems that DNS 11.5 Premium and WP X6 don't play well together -- dictating in DNS is just ignored by WP X6.

 Do you have any idea how to enable DNS to type a document in WordPerfect X6?

Failing that, what has to happen in order to make these two programs compatible, and when you think that might happen?

Thanks,

Jeffrey R. Mazor

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