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Topic Title: Dragon will hang up for awhile Topic Summary: DragonDictate will freeze, then will enter text after 20 to 30 seconds Created On: 11/17/2010 05:08 PM Status: Post and Reply |
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- bweissglass | - 11/17/2010 05:08 PM |
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- Lunis Orcutt | - 11/18/2010 10:22 AM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/01/2011 01:06 PM |
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- Chucker | - 02/01/2011 01:20 PM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/01/2011 03:36 PM |
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- Chucker | - 02/01/2011 07:04 PM |
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- mppcarey | - 02/01/2011 10:31 PM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/02/2011 10:12 AM |
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- Chucker | - 02/02/2011 10:27 AM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/02/2011 01:33 PM |
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- Chucker | - 02/02/2011 05:02 PM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/03/2011 08:11 AM |
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- Chucker | - 02/03/2011 09:32 AM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/10/2011 01:02 PM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/10/2011 01:04 PM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/10/2011 01:46 PM |
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- Lunis Orcutt | - 02/10/2011 10:45 PM |
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- Chucker | - 02/10/2011 11:21 PM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/11/2011 08:26 AM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/11/2011 08:28 AM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/11/2011 09:36 AM |
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- jiml302 | - 02/11/2011 11:10 AM |
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- tsutton | - 03/25/2013 11:19 PM |
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- Chucker | - 03/26/2013 09:03 AM |
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Hi. I am having a problem when I am dictating into a template using Microsoft Word 2007. What happens is that I will be dictating along with no problems and suddenly DragonDictate medical 10.1 will freeze for 20 or 30 seconds, then enter the text into Word. When it freezes, the yellow/green marker next to the microphone won't move even if I speak into the microphone. After that, everything will go fine for a little bit and then it will keep happening again and again. I never have to reboot or restart the program. I just have to wait 20 to 30 seconds each time. Any ideas?
Thank you, Barry Weissglass ------------------------- |
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The most likely reason for this delay is another utility in your computer demanding your processors full attention such as a spyware utility or possibly something pinging the network. Unfortunately, the best we can offer is for you to open the Processes tab of the Task Manager and End Task each process until you locate the culprit.
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I still experience this on numerous computers (XP or win7) in our office while dictating into our EMR software. I have MRTG network graphs and taskmon graphs that prove otherwise. We have widdled the program down by deselecting special options to reduce its footprint. I have 20 licenes of this garbage software and nuisance wants us to pay for a support contract to look at it. It seems the product is very bloated. When it works it works good, but that seems to be a rarity.
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Jim, Getting technical support rule #1: When asking questions or describing problems, express yourself as if you were attempting to describe the Mona Lisa to a blind person. -------------------------
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I disagree that the software works fine, if that was the case i wouldn't have been pointed here. However the xp systems are xpsp3 images using chartlogic EMR and Dragon 10.1 med. There are some other apps on for viewing DICOM images from the pacs server. All XP boxes are Dual core dell optis with 3GB ram. All Win7 box are i3 with 4gb ram. Out of 14 providers all 14 have experienced intermittent slowness when dictating. 2 have experienced issues as we did with dragon 9 that when dictating it doesn't even come close to what you said. Usually a reboot fixes that. I have observed dragonhold a footprint of 450-600MB. Processor utilization doesn't even reach 25%. Network is gig E, usually sits around .05-10% utilization. There are no voice channels to the server, it dictates through the local machine to the EMR client.Dragon 10 config, Accuracy bar is set to 50%, all special feature check boxes (ie HTML) are unchecked. What else do you need ?
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Quote: I disagree that the software works fine, if that was the case i wouldn't have been pointed here. However the xp systems are xpsp3 images using chartlogic EMR and Dragon 10.1 med. There are some other apps on for viewing DICOM images from the pacs server. All XP boxes are Dual core dell optis with 3GB ram. All Win7 box are i3 with 4gb ram. Out of 14 providers all 14 have experienced intermittent slowness when dictating. 2 have experienced issues as we did with dragon 9 that when dictating it doesn't even come close to what you said. Usually a reboot fixes that. I have observed dragonhold a footprint of 450-600MB. Processor utilization doesn't even reach 25%. Network is gig E, usually sits around .05-10% utilization. There are no voice channels to the server, it dictates through the local machine to the EMR client.Dragon 10 config, Accuracy bar is set to 50%, all special feature check boxes (ie HTML) are unchecked. What else do you need ? Jim, What I meant when I said that the software works fine is that it has been out on the market for well over two years and proven to be stable and reliable. What you are experiencing is an interference between something that is running relative to your use of Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10.1 Medical and your use relative to either your network or your EMR client. First, DNS 10.1 Medical can use upwards of 450 to 600 MB of RAM. This is normal. Second, processor utilization doesn't mean anything by itself unless it spikes to 75% to 100%. What you're seeing as far as utilization of NaturallySpeaking is normal. The slowness do you are experiencing may be a network issue. Any bottlenecks in the network will also create bottlenecks with DNS. Attach a copy of your Dragon log from one of them from one or two of the systems where you are experiencing this problem. Keep in mind that if you post the Dragon log on the KnowBrainer forum you have to change the extension from Dragon.log to Dragon.txt. You cannot post an ASCII text file with the extension*.log. Any reference to log in the extension will preclude anyone be able to view your Dragon log(s). Lastly, I would try moving your Speed vs. Accuracy slider all the way to the right (100%) and see if there's any latency under normal conditions. In DNS 10.1, any version, as long as you're running a dual core processor with at least 3 GB or 4 GB of RAM, or you're running a Core™ i3, you shouldn't have to place the Speed vs. Accuracy slider less than 100%. It shouldn't create any latency issues. Again, I say it shouldn't create any latency issues under normal conditions. By normal conditions I mean when it is functioning properly. There are many reasons why accuracy can degrade during a given session. These can range from using Dragon over a long. (6 to 8 hours) without at least once or twice closing Dragon NaturallySpeaking and reopening it. Users voice and dictation style can change over the course of a day. Rerunning the Audio Setup Wizard can sometimes help with this. Also dictation style and the quality of your microphone (the make, model, and specifications for which I need in all cases where you are experiencing this problem) can impact on accuracy. A poorly created or poorly trained Acoustic Model (i.e., general training) can affect accuracy, either in the short term or the long term.Obviously something isn't working properly, but my suspicion is that it is not specifically related to Dragon itself, even though Dragon may be part of the equation. In other words, it's not a one-to-one cause-and-effect relationship. My suspicion is that Dragon is merely a player in the game and that what is happening is being caused and/or primarily influenced by something else. If everyone that is having a problem is connected to the same network in using the same applications, then I would look there first because by itself on a local system simply dictating into Microsoft Word on the local system should be working properly. I currently use Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10.1 Medical and have since its first release without any particular difficulty such as those that you're experiencing. So I know the software works properly unless something else is interfering. Having at one time been part of the DNS development team, I have some unique insight into what goes on under the hood. If there were a general problem with DNS 10.1 Medical, I would've found that a long time ago. One further point, if what you are trying to access is displayed in HTML form (i.e., HTML Windows or HTML applications) disabling the HTML functions in Dragon NaturallySpeaking can cause problems. What happens if you reenable these options in the DNS Options dialog | Commands tab. That is, does it exacerbate the problem, reduce or eliminate the problem, or create a whole different set of problems? You shouldn't disable HTML support normally because: (a) it is important and essential to normal functioning with DNS, and (b) if you're working with HTML documents or HTML Windows, disabling the HTML support will cause DNS to not functioning properly when accessing anything that is HTML based. This can affect accuracy, Select-and-Say, and even dictation or access to areas within HTML Windows. Let me know specifically and in detail exactly what happens if you reenable HTML support, specifically Enable HTML support and Enable commands in HTML Windows. Chuck Runquist "What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you." - Anthony de Mello -------------------------
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I've been administrating 50+ Dragon Medical 10.1 installs and it works quite well even with equipment that barely meets Nuance's recommended hardware requirements. We also are using Dell optis. I found that all the machines need to be configured to Nuance's Best Practice parameters to work effectively with our EMR. I don't have the document with the recommended setting with me at home but if you back channel an email to me at mcarey@swmail.sw.org I'll forward it to you tomorrow AM.
Mike ------------------------- DNS 10.1 Medical Network Edition, DNS Medical 10.1 Enterprise & Dragon 12.5 Professional with Knowbrainer Medical: Dell Optiplex 790 i5 CPU 3.1 6MB L3 cache 4 MB DDR3 RAM using Windows XP SP3 or Dell Latitude e4310 i3 M370 2.40Ghz, 4 MB DDR2 RAM using Windows XP SP3 or Acer laptop i7 720 1.6Ghz (2.8Ghz Turboboost) 8GB 1333 RAM with 6MB L3 cache running Windows 8. |
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"Any bottlenecks in the network will also create bottlenecks with DNS" that might be true for name resolution, but as for an application that runs locally i disagree. That application should function just the same whether the network cables plugged in or out or if the machine has a DOS attack .I will post one of today's logs. Now the program might seem robust for one user who sporadically uses it through out the day versus 14-25 users that rely on it quite heavily as the main interface to an application. Only in volume do you see multiple errors. Now the results from yesterdays test of removing html and other functions made no difference the app randomly slowed and sped up during dictation. So I have reenabled the functions, moved the slider all the way to the left for speed vs accuracy. We will see if that makes a diff. I also emailed the gentlemen above regarding BBP guide and have not heard back. Do you have one ?
Also trying to work the wrinkles out, how does dragon work in a thin client environment vs fat ? can it be ran on win7x64 (as i would like to get a better machine for testing purposes)
Thanks for info |
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Jim, "Assumption is the mother of all screw ups" - Unknown -------------------------
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Chuck,
have you noticed a difference in performance between intel and amd ? does it function on 64bit os ? |
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Quote: have you noticed a difference in performance between intel and amd ? Poes it function on 64bit os ? Jim, Yes, the Intel chips (Core™ i processors) tend to function better than the AMD. By the same token, the six core AMD Phenom seems to work very well and comparably to the Core™ i7 first-generation 900 series. However, the Core™ i7 980X Extreme still run circles around the AMD equivalent. The Core™ i7 980X Extreme is a six core, 12 MB L3 cache running at 3.3 GHz, and I'm using 12 GB of 2000 MHz DDR3 under Windows 7 64-bit. I'm not sure whether you're referring to Dragon functioning under Windows 7 64-bit or Citrix. I can't speak for Citrix because I only access the Citrix thin client for testing. However, Dragon NaturallySpeaking is fully 64-bit compliant even though the actual core program is only 32-bit. You have to understand that most people misunderstand what 64-bit means. Not every application including Dragon, can be compiled to be strictly 64-bit because doing so might even make it run slower and less efficiently. 64-bit is not an end-all and be-all requirement for applications. If an application that is at its core 32-bit is designed to access memory above 4 GB and be able to use the 64-bit registers as DNS 11 can using the DGN UI Automation Server (dgnserver_x64.exe), that's all that's necessary for running efficiently and performing faster under 64-bit versions of Windows. Don't dive into the myth that applications that are written strictly for 64-bit, such as Microsoft office 2010 64-bit, is a necessary requirement or that it is even desirable. That is simply and patently false. The only thing that anyone needs to be concerned about as far Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11 is concerned is that it can address and use memory above 4 GB, it can access applications that are loaded into memory above 4 GB, and again use the 64-bit registers in the processor for faster load times. Once Dragon gets into memory, it doesn't matter whether it's 32-bit or 64-bit. That is not going to improve its performance. Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11 is perfectly compliant with 64-bit operating systems and makes use of all the advantages available to such. That's all you need to know. That being said, there may come a point if DNS gets any larger (i.e., 2 GB to 4 GB in size) where it might be necessary to stuff it into RAM above 4 GB, but that is not a difficult problem, nor will it require that it be a full 64-bit application. Read up on 64-bit operating systems by searching for 64-bit on Wikipedia. It might help you to understand is a little better. Chuck Runquist "We are all victims of mythology in one way or another. We are the inheritors, and many times the propagators, of a desire to believe what we want to believe, regardless of whether or not it is true." -- J.V. Stewart -------------------------
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Chuck I'm well aware of the difference between 32 and 64 bit arch along with how applications run in different environments. I have worked in IT for close to 16 years now and my backround is a UNIX admin, not once have I come across an application that continues to fail as much as DRAGON. And the reason I asked about the 64 bit support is because dragon has such a bloated foot print,for testing purposes i am building an upgraded box with alot of memory to keep dragon out of swap. however you are incorrect as to how the windows arch uses memory. Xp does not do well with more then 4gb EVEN with PAE enabled(winblows does not handle hardware like unix). To get the full benefits of addition ram in a win desktop system you need to go into a server arch or 64 bit arch. Wiki is only ok for somethings. As for CITRIX, possibly having a server with 90gb ram and multiple quad core, can give the docs here a better experience dictating, thats only if dragon works across the stream.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/pae/pae_os.mspx |
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Jim, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves." -- Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC) -------------------------
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Here are some new oberservations
SYSTEM is brand new : quad core proc, 6 gb ram 500gb driveWIN7PRO X64. The only software installed is Chartlogic and Dragon. Day one went great without a hich, fast, noproblems. Today it slowed down quite abit to where the Doc asked if something was going on, As i stood overhim accuracy went right out the window. The program became unresponsive. After a reboot, I had him run the optimization tool, after that was complete 3 dictations later we lost accuracy again ?
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I'm almost certain by the way its acting is there is some sort of adaptive algorithm that could be adjusting or changing the files ????
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you notice this ?
10:44:38 Info: opening file <C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Users\CL_Default\current\voice\enu_large.usr>
What this is telling me is Chartlogic can not open the providers voices file possibly because of corruption. I have forwarded this to them, they have not responded yet, but I'm sure the response will be the Dragon10 profile is corrupt, delete it and re run , re train..... and this will happen yet again in a few weeks...... it a re occuring cycle of **** |
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Gremlins
We recommend creating another user profile and skipping general training so that you can immediately test the new user. If you experience the same issue with the new user profile, it is much more likely that something else is interfering with NaturallySpeaking then NaturallySpeaking misbehaving. -------------------------
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Quote: you notice this ? 10:44:38 Info: opening file <C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Users\CL_Default\current\voice\enu_large.usr> 10:44:38 Info: opening file <C:\ProgramData\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking10\Users\CL_Default\current\US_Engli\general.voc> What this is telling me is Chartlogic can not open the providers voices file possibly because of corruption. I have forwarded this to them, they have not responded yet, but I'm sure the response will be the Dragon10 profile is corrupt, delete it and re run , re train..... and this will happen yet again in a few weeks...... it a re occuring cycle of **** Jim, First, this is one of the reasons why I don't teach users how to read the Dragon log. Your interpretation is incorrect. If I'm correct in assuming that you're referring to those two log entries as part of the problem, that's wrong. These are normal log entries for the initialization of your user profile. They are simply indicating that your user profile is loading in the first line and your vocabulary is loading in the second line. These are normal. I would worry if they weren't there because that would be a problem, but you would be notified that your user profile was loaded. Second, aside from the average user making the mistake of misinterpreting log entries, taking log entries out of context is meaningless. The only way to interpret the Dragon log is as a whole. Chuck Runquist Technical Project Manager VoiceTeach LLC Home of VoicePower® Ultimate ![]() "The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable." -- Paul Broca -------------------------
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Chuck,
My suspicions were correct, chartlogic does not call Dragon normally (or as i guess you would expect it to), the reference of the default user being loaded only happens in one of 2 ways, a Non voice provider logging into they system will pull that user or a voice provider with damaged files will cause it to default back to the Cl user (generic profile). So now i need to figure out if chartlogic is reconstructing these files or if it is dragon.
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did you see anything out of the ordinary in the log i attached ?
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observation 2
doc r also got a new machine, same specs as the one above, only EMR and Dragon loaded. He also states the machine was blazing fast for 4 hours yesterday, then he said right after i called you voice became unresponsive as with Doc J, he spoke, nothing appeared, and if something did it was not what was said. This is the log from that time-frame.
20:35:56 Info: multimedia device ID 0 name |
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lunis,
Once I get chartlogic to observe what is happening. I will then delete the profile, create a new one, do NO general training and see if that corrects the issue. But I am curious to what dragon is deleting rewriting and optimizing as dictations is going on. |
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Has anyone solved this issue? we are having the same issue 2 years after this post.
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Tommy,
We would love to help you, but you haven't given us anything to work with. You're KnowBrainer profile is empty, we do not know what your hardware configuration is (i.e., CPU make, model, speed, total amount of RAM, operating system and whether or not it's 32-bit or 64-bit, version of Dragon, etc.). We not only need the version of Dragon, we need the flavor (i.e., Premium, Professional, Legal, Medical, yada yada yada). Also, where is it occurring (i.e., what application or window)? Wouldn't life be much simpler if we could simply call up for auto mechanic on the phone and say that my car doesn't start, can you fix it? Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Chuck Getting technical support rule #1: When asking questions or describing problems, express yourself as if you were attempting to describe the Mona Lisa to a blind person. -------------------------
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